Which Pokemon are Worth Maxing?
This question is not accounting for IVs, so please don't respond with (96% or higher) answers. I'm instead looking for what Pokemon *species* are worth powering up.
I'm a personal believer in maxing out a few Pokemon over spending stardust to bring a large amount of them to incomplete levels (25-35, breakpoints, etc). This is because this type of powering up only works for specific matchups, which I believe will account for a massive waste of stardust in the long run. Maxed mons, the way I see it, should see lots of use and should have roles both broad and defined. What do you all think? 1) What is worth your precious stardust, and 2) What is worth powering up to the maximum level [if this answer differs from the first question]?
Answers
No legendaries listed due to the rare candy requirement.
1. Machamp with Counter/Dynamic Punch. I have a few level 35-36 but there really is a difference with my level 40 one, so I intend to max out some more. Super valuable for clearing gyms, soloing Porygon and Cloyster and will be great for the Regis.
2. Exeggutor with Solar Beam, especially with Confusion. Solar Beam Eggy is the best grass type in the game and a top counter to many Pokemon, but if you are lucky enough to have one with Confusion, he is a devastating generalist worth maxing out.
3. Dragonite with Dragon Tail/Outrage. Even in the age of specialists, Dragonite is such a great generalist that he is a top 5 counter to many Pokemon, making a great team filler if you are short on optimal counters. Even if other Dragons to come will be better, Dragonite won't be obsolete for a long time, if ever.
I have others maxed out, but they were personal preferences due to sentimentality or personal in-game goals.
Power up the best one or two and save the others (unless they have just terrible IVs).
I have a C/So and C/Se both powered up to about 38, another C/So at about 35. Since the Gen2 release, I have gradually purged maybe a dozen or so Exeggutors with Zen Headbutt and Confusion with bad IVs that I used to use for prestige.
I have a few more left with Zen Headbutt or Confusion that have good IVs but have not powered up. Hypothetical future trading or move rebalancing might give them new value so I can't bring myself to get rid of all of them.
Dragon Claw is great for both attacking and defending gyms. However, looking at Dragon Breath I don't see the merit unless PvP came out with functional dodging. Dragon Tail is definitely fast enough to dodge with, and it's also one of the best neutral Quick Moves in the game.
Dragon Claw sacrifices a little bit of DPS for better maneuverability and consistency than Outrage. The same can be said about Dragon Breath. However, combining both of them severely hampers Dragonites DPS, and clipping the DPS of a generalist defeats the purpose of using it in the first place.
For low motivation gyms, I use a DT/DC Dragonite. Don't need to bother with dodging since they're low motivation and Outrage is overkill sometimes, whereas Claw has just enough damage and even if it does overkill you're not wasting as much energy, plus the faster damage window means you avoid the rest of the cooldown if it's used to finish off the enemy.
Depends on how low is considered "low motivation" though.
DB/DC certainly has much more consistency than Outrage.
Have you tried DT/DC though? Check out the stats of Dragon Tail
https://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/pokemon-move/dragon-tail
compared to Dragonbreath
https://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/pokemon-move/dragon-breath
It has much better damage and slightly better energy. 1.1 cooldown is really not that slow (same speed as Snarl, Extrasensory). Should be more than enough for dodging charged moves and slow quick moves. You would only need a faster move to weave (that is, to dodge every high-speed quick move of the opponent), and this severely lowers DPS further.
Not that this is the kind of choice most players can make. If I had a DB/DC Dragonite I would not Fast TM it unless I had another, or if I knew that DT was becoming legacy too. I personally have no legacy mons except for a DT/O Gyarados.
I have split them into non-legendary and legendary so that if some don't have any legendaries or that particular legendary, they could use a Rhydon. Note that there's Jolteon mentioned in normal list, but also Raikou and Zapdos in the legendary list.
And yeah some generalists may surpass it, but if you don't have them, he'll do for anything that requires Ground. Heck he saves in situations where ground wasn't even optimal if I managed to land a charged Earthquake.
Agree with all of this but have a few additions that will be useful soon: for rayquazza I would power up an ice type (piloswine is my pick because it evolves next gen to mamoswine which is a beast) and flareon (will be useful against regice and registeel).
For legendaries, I’d also power up one of either moltres or Entei.
Lastly, really fun movesets to use are Fury Cutter/ X-Scissor Scizor and Fury Cutter/ Leaf Blade. Scizor isn’t that useful except an ok Alakazam and Mewtwo counter but Sceptile is great vs Kyogre now and Omastar.
Good thoughts, but this question is about maxing a Pokemon. I'm definitely going to power up my Articuno and I have a few other wild-caught level ~30 ice types. However, I don't think their role is currently defined enough to MAX them out completely.
Ice-types all currently have relatively low max CP, and Ground types are better dealt with by Grass/Water moves, Grass types by Fire moves. Their only niche remaining is Dragon, and Gardevoir/Dragonite (and soon to be Rayquaza) all challenge this.
Sceptile is something else, pretty cool with high-energy moves and arguably the best Grass Charged Move. I could see someone making the case for it. Shiftry doesn't have a high-energy quick move like Sceptile does.
Scizor is a great bug with great offensive typing, and bug will stand out against Celebi. That's about it though. With Gardevoir in the picture, people may be looking at its Steel set now, at least until Metagross enters the scene.
This is an opinion piece not a knowledge-based question so I'll provide an answer myself:
I'll only power up Pokemon that I'm going to max out. This makes them more difficult to be replaced by other pokes. This also means that I should try to avoid regrets, so high IV is key here.
- Tyranitar:
Great generalist, lots of resistances to offset many weaknesses, premier Dark-specialist (Handy as many legendaries are Psychic or Ghost-type), devastating gym defender to newer players (many do not have good Machamp) when outfitted with Iron Tail. Good walking buddy since Tyranitar won't be replaced and candies are uncommon.
Minimum IV to power: 100% - Raid boss and hatchable, and spawns improved from two most common weather phenomenon. 100% since they will not be replaced in the future.
- Gardevoir
Great typing combination, access to very optimal iterations of moves (Confusion is a top-tier quick move, DG/SB are both high-tier Charged moves and are particularly great defending 2-bars with great coverage), very potion efficient. Fairy-type destroys the current gym meta with the exception of Metagross, and its quick move at the very least benefits from being a good quick move and STAB. On gym defense, uncommon and highly-sought after, meaning it will be fed often. Absolutely forces a switch from Machamp and DT Dragonite in gym sweeping. Fantastic defending moveset (Slow quick move, two-bar charged moves). Great counter to up-and-coming Dragon legendaries (Rayquaza, Latis, Palkia).
Minimum IV to power up: 100% - Spawns increased during two separate weather conditions, and one doesn't really need multiple Gardevoir so patience is merited.
- Dragonite
Great generalist, great neutral coverage, one of the best quick moves, high-power two-bar for gym sweeping, lots of resistances. Extremely high-damage gym defender (destroys opponent's potion supply), somewhat mitigates Machamp/Dragonite gym sweepers. Often fed as a defender for candy chance. Potential Dragon-type legendary counter. Hurricane makes a decent Machamp counter (I would never use this)
Minimum IV to power up: 100% - One doesn't need more than one or two max Dragonites - they're meant to patch up holds in raid teams and sweep gyms, and they're somewhat flawed as Dragon-specialists given they're weak to Dragon and are exposed by Outrage's long cooldown. Dratini event will lead to lots of candy and potentially good IVs.
- Machamp
Fighting is a great type, best quick move, top-tier charged move, and STAB on both. High neutral DPS, decent survivability. Gym defenders often share Fighting-type weakness, and many future raid bosses are also weak to fighting. Candies are uncommon but can be found in nests.
Minimum IV to power up: 100% - Can be found weather-boosted. Only need one maxed out for gym sweeping UNLESS attempting to duo TTar/Aggron. A team of Machamps to back up during raids can be caught weather-boosted at any IV.
Blissey:
High TDO, great offense moves, good defensive moves. Often fed in gyms. Destroys opponent's time and potion supply. Great for holding gyms for EX-Raids.
Minimum IV to power up: 100% - Good Chansey/Blissey can be found weather-boosted and their candy is expensive. Only will max a perfect one - no one needs more than one maxed Blissey since a single gym can yield a day's coin supply, and no one can attend multiple EX-Raids at once.
- Legacy Pokemon
Rock Throw/Rock Slide Omastar, Confusion Exeggcutor, Body Slam Snorlax, Shadow Claw Gengar, and Dragon Claw (I don't care about DB) Dragonite all make great candidates for maxing. They cannot be replaced at all (since I don't believe trading will ever come out) unless a community event features legacy moves, and all of these movesets not only are far superior or have different uses than their current movesets, but also do things that current Pokemon cannot do.
Minimum IV to power up: Any. They cannot currently be replaced in any way and are unlikely to. Their only risk comes from move rebalances and the unlikely introduction of superior moves.
- Legendaries
Eventually max all of them. Entei and Zapdos powered with all current non-rare candies since they are outdone by Moltres/Raikou for type-based damage output. Suicune has no place until legendaries can be placed in gyms. Ho-Oh, Lugia, and, to a greater extent, Groudon and Kyogre maxed first since they see niche use as well as making great anchors and fantastic generalists. Mewtwo makes a great generalist AND Psychic/Ghost specialist, maxing a second one for Focus Blast since they do not at all share the same niche.
Minimum IV to power up: Best IV during window. Unlikely that legendaries will return outside of regional events for small windows. Legendaries are limited-edition so unlikely to find a better one after their window, making for no-regrets maxing. Mewtwo is the exception - will likely max one moveset immediately and a second one when/if it departs from EX-Raids.
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These Pokemon are the candidates that I have/will be maxing out. If you're wondering why my non-legendary IV threshold is 100% despite the rarity of these Pokemon, it's because I didn't talk about evolution. Given enough candy, one can evolve a middling IV weather-boosted iteration of the Pokemon for similar results. Maxing out a Pokemon should be saved for the best one may find, and one can certainly get by with weather-boosted Pokemon while waiting.
Why call me a snob for this? This leaves me with Pokemon to pull my weight in raids unrestrained from stardust, being level 35 mons off the bat, and it also gives me long-term goals and real possibilities for my team. A few of these Pokemon I have already found, so it's a real possibility. For example, I already have 3 maxed perfect TTars that won't ever be replaced nor deemed regrettable, one of which was a raid boss. This is how I like to do things, and it may even give others some guidance on the considerations of powering up their mons.
My personal thoughts on Entei and Zapdos are that Entei shines much more on gyms than in raids. Moltres outdoes it in DPS - Entei's dps is lower than Flareon. It's redeemed in its resistance to ice. Moltres, unlike Entei, has the neutral damage to make a good generalist in raids, augmented further by my area's frequent Clear weather. Entei has impressive bulk that I don't find very useful in raids due to its somewhat lower attack stat. Fire-types aren't highly necessary right now, so I would use them primarily as Clear weather Generalists, and in this regard Moltres excels. Perhaps Entei will pull ahead during Regice - but I'll have my Machamps for that, and Moltres will still be decent for this too. A good niche but not one I feel deserves a heavy, permanent investment. I'll only max one Moltres and bring my Entei to level 32 (Since that's how many candies I have for it).
Zapdos is unable to adequately challenge Articuno, or many other water types due to its Ice-type weakness. Luckily, it can usually get many Charged Moves off before its demise due to its high-energy quick move and having access to a two-bar. I may max my Zapdos, though I will definitely max my best Raikou first.
The minimum IV parts are crazy, indeed. I have it this way because maxing a Pokemon, in the context I gave it, is a heavy, permanent investment.
I would not max Golem right now. It has a very small meta niche, isn't a great gym attacker because other mons do everything it does but better and it's uncertain if there will be a major raid matchup for it before gen 4. There's already half a dozen pokemon in the game that would dethrone Golem given a double rock moveset so it's quite a risky investment.
If they rerun the birds or make some other raid target for Golem, sure. But until something like that happens, it's a big risk for very small gain.
I have been playing this game since launch in hopes of PvP; although enjoyable, success in
I personally am not powering up any legendaries any more, because I am *anticipating* that once player-vs-player does release, there will be an option to toggle legendaries on/off, with off being the default for battle options. Why? I make this ASSUMPTION for two reasons:
1. In both the main series games and the anime, legendary Pokémon generally* were not either permitted in standard play nor associated with trainers. Look at the battle tower, and even in the competitive scene: most are banned to Ubers (the name of the highest tier in play, with the default being a tier below). But yes this is not those games nor the show, so why does it matter? By allowing legendaries, the roles of lower-tier/strength Pokémon become obsolete, with their advantages typically being underwhelmed by the stats alone legendaries possess. And furthermore..
2. Not every player has equal access to discord groups and other means of social platforms to coordinate raids, which extends the potential between a player in a connected area and a player in a rural setting.
For those two reasons, I am anticipating that legendaries will not be permitted with the default settings in PvP battles. If individuals wish to play with legendaries, I will explain why I do not want to use them, and if they are persistent, I will not play them.
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Now to answer your question:
It depends on the goal. My opinions essentially mirror yours (WaterYouWading4) in that legendaries typically provide high dps choices, blissey as a gym defender, Machamp, alakazam, Tyranitar for super effective match ups, and Dragonite as a generalist.
For me, like I mentioned, I’m anticipating PvP and am powering up mons with movesets that have short cooldowns (FC/XS scizor, L/BS snorlax, etc.) However now that I think about it, it would have been wise to not max anything Incase my predictions for PvP don’t hold lmaoooo
Non-legendaries:
Tyranitar, Machamp, Dragonite, Exeggutor, Blissey (EDIT: Any stat rebalance that makes sense will instantly nerf Blissey).
Honorable mentions: Gardevoir, Alakazam, Espeon.
Legendaries:
Mewtwo, Raikou, Kyogre, Groudon, Moltres, Zapdos, Entei.
Nonlegendaries that get completely outclassed by Gen 4 nonlegendaries and are thus inadvisable targets for maxing: Flareon, Jolteon, any Ice mon other than Piloswine, Golem (maybe).
Tyranitar (double Dark), Dragonite, Raikou, Blissey, Exeggutor (double Grass), Espeon, Gyarados, and Machamp. I'd call these essential.
Of the legendaries, IMO, MewTwo, Groudon, Kyogre, and Moltres/Entei are certainly worthwhile, but also luxuries.
That said, I've maxed many more than those. Those are what I'd call the "core" considerations.
Its Flying sub-typing sometimes gives it the edge, but, for the most part, hinders its use against Water-types with an Ice-type move. It doesn't have the bulk to take SE hits that Raikou does.
I've found that Water-types are way more likely to carry an Ice-type move than a Ground/Grass/Bug/Fighting-type move. Let's also not forget about Articuno.
