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Opinion- high EPS fast moves the way forward?

I had this thought when I was scrolling through my type coverage and considering what second moves to give to some dual type pokemon.

Given that you can only have one fast move at any given time, and the increased 'value' of fast TMs (3 moves are possible now, so the fast TM usage will shoot up), most will likely be settling with 1 fast move and 2 charges if the species has a dual typing and is worth it. With the type effectiveness change, it's important to capitalise on charge move damage, and you need high EPS for that.

Example: Gengar with lick. Although Roserade is a clear winner as a poison attacker, i might just make do with a lick+sludge bomb one if all it takes is 50k stardust for a new move. I can then cover the poison front without having to max a roserade.

Now consider exeggutor with legacy confusion. Conf+solar beam was universally regarded as the best set until the type effectiveness change. Now it's more of a novelty because confusion is a low EPS move and doesn't really do the one bar solar beam any favours. Similar cases can be made for Tyranitar, Latios/Latias if you try to buy moves for its dual typing, because neither of its fast moves are fast charging and they are just trash if you attempt to use an off type stab set.

Asked by Lecafe885 years 2 months ago
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by zap 5 years 2 months ago

It depends on certain things, as to whether EPS should have priority.
How does it compare with TDO of the other fast move? Is one type more common (this effective) in battles than the other? Is the extra bit of EPS worth a big sacrifice in damage? What charge attacks does the Pokemon have?

So you can see simply not EPS is not that obvious.

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That's true, but I'm comparing stuff that's more along the lines of fast moves that are comparable when paired with the optimal charge.

I presented lick gengar in my first post because Shadow Claw/Lick is much debated against a ghost/psychic target, but lick is the clear winner should you wish to use the sludge bomb charge.

KC/Counter Machamp is another good example, both are optimal with Dynamic Punch, while KC is the energy generator. If you so wish to use the alternative charge such as rock slide or heavy slam, KC is much superior, assuming the charge is super effective and KC is neutral/nve.

Charge Beam/TS Zapdos is a bad example, because CB has only a tiny advantage in EPS but considerably less DPS. It has no alternative charge anyway.

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Can you explain why KC is superior to Counter? This site's PVP Fast Moves table shows both moves with identical duration of 1 turn and identical Energy gain of 7. It seems like Counter is just objectively better.

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by Mouton 5 years 2 months ago

I think a great example of the dual type 2 charge moves is Weavile.

Top tier Dark attacker with Feint Attack / Foul Play
Top Tier Ice attacker with Feint Attack / Avalanche

He has more dps with Feint attack and avalanche than he would with ice shard as a dual ice moveset.

Well worth the 50,000SD for 2 charge moves

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