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Multi account advantages, ideas to even it out?

In my town multi accounts seem to more and more dominate among high level players. The advantages are so obvious that many single accounters consider opening extras.

Raiding: With 3 best friend accounts there are not many raids you are not able to take alone. Always getting more balls and doing more damage are very nice benefits.

Trading: Medals are easy to obtain. Lucky pokemon could be exploited. Much easier to get a huge shiny collection on main account. Very easy to get decent raid teams on extra accounts. If you strive for huge numbers on magikarp, rat or pikachu medals, look no more.

Gyms: Defending and attacking against 3 or more accounts is futile.

Almost every introduced game feature so far benefits multi accounts. Maybe time to change that?

Suggestions?

Some of mine, some better than others:

Soloing lvl 4 and 5 raids should be made possible by removing the 180/300s timer.

Great rewards for "active play". Say a legendary reward for doing 100-200 curveballs during a day. 50 rare candy for 1000 curveballs in a week. Increase stardust reward for good throws and curveballs, like for Xp.

Feeding gyms would be limited to one account per attacking account during fights, or no feeding allowed during attacks, only inbetween.

Trading cooldown, after trading 50 mons you must be >500m apart for 2 hours (while logged in of course), before trading together again.

Level/IV/Weight are treated as shinieness, being random at catch.

Lower catch rate but also lower flee rate on "good pokemon" (level, rarity, IV, shiny) to avoid gotcha-abuse (multi-bracelet users).

Asked by NorthbyNorth5 years 6 months ago
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Answers

I'll go through your ideas one by one.

- Utterly absurd and defeats the whole point of lvl 4/5 raids

- LOL. i'm all for bonus rewards for completing tasks but you just want an easy source of rare candies and legendary rewards there.

- Isn't it easy enough to take down gyms already? Feeding gyms is the only way to hold onto them when someone is attacking.

- Pointless. A multi account user can still do 50 trades in the morning, 50 in the afternoon, 50 in the evening

- IV's are already randomized when trading, so you can't simply trade over a 100% pokemon. Most people use multi accounts to support their main account in raids and get more shinies. They don't use them to collect more 100% pokemon.

- Decent idea, except the gotcha users will then start raging. Gotcha users essentially pay money to be allowed to cheat, which i don't agree with but that's a different story.

Like it or not, multi account users give Niantic more money. I expect traded pokemon will be banned from PvP when it arrives. That will totally kill any advantages of multi accounting there.

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The trade limit is 100 per day and having to leave the other account open for 2 hours far away from the main account would be a pretty significant inconvenience. But I dislike it because it hurts single account users too much.

Gotcha users raging is of little consequence. Everyone who uses the gotcha is breaking the TOS and thus has no argument, whether they know about it being prohibited or not. Niantic doesn't make money off of gotchas, a third party does. That said, bans without warnings would be a PR fail as well as lost revenue, so more likely is that Niantic just prevents gotchas from working if they decide to ever care about them.
Although I think it's hard to call gotcha cheating when go plus is explicitly supported. The advantages gotcha has are pretty small and somewhat balanced by the fact that it's a lot more unstable than go plus.

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I consider the disadvantage of having to manage several accounts enough of an incentive to not have them. It's clumsy to hold two phones and play, impossible to catch pokemon efficiently with both and hitting the trade limit by yourself equals 3-4 evo sessions with two phones. I'll put the effort into my one account.

I like the feeding limit suggestion. I think it's ridiculous that a multiaccounter or an organized group of remote players can prevent the takedown of a gym by a player who is physically there. It's an AR game and the person who's physically at the location should be the one who's advantaged. In Ingress you can guaranteed take any portal if you're there and the opponent isn't, the most the opponent can do is force you to use more resources and a bit of time, and it makes for a much healthier competitive experience. Unfortunately, need for GRB makes Niantic money so we aren't likely to see any nerfs to remote feeding.

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Not that much of an inconvenience, I suppose. Otherwise it would not have been that popular. Most I know use them very targeted.

I know several that drive around alone with 3-4 phones and Ipads and manage to handle it pretty well.

Catch passively with gotcha. Only exchange gifts with own accounts and selected few. Use them actively only at raids, gyms, tiny/colossal catch and "trade-abuse". As for trading, there might not be much advantage reaching daily limit after you got the gold medal, with the exception of abusing "lucky" after certain community days.

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Sorry if this sounds harsh, those people you know who manage to deal with 3-4 accounts are not "normal" people. It's already too much of a hassle for one person to manage two accounts. Most people can use them for building one team to duo a specific raid. But not multiple raid bosses, since that requires a lot of stardust time and dedication.

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Like GiardinoNi already said, someone who can dedicate an extra 2-3 devices to their extra accounts and is ready to drop in the money to buy a gotcha for each of them as well as spend significant amounts of time on managing the storages and inventories of each of them could hardly be considered "normal". That level of investment says hardcore player.

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If you have about 10 people driving around with 3+ accounts in small midsized town with 60k people I would not call it it "extreme". Those with two accounts are several times that.
Most of them are forty and above so some extra money for additional devices is no problem.

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Most Singaporeans (not just Go players) have two or three smart devices. At raids here, players using only one device are a minority.

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I can't fathom why, but I'm pretty set in my ways as a laptop+phone person. I just can't see what you'd do with another smart device if you have a good phone already.

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I would. The fact that the town is small doesn't mean anything, those players are putting in significantly more effort and money than the average pogo player.

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The only realistic approach is to make accounts more meaningful for the high level players. The fact that they ran out of stuff to do is obvious when people start caring about the "extra xp" over the 40 level limit. It must be boring for a level 40 trainer who pretty much has caught them all

The level limit will certainly be reworked. Cause it's a change that will give niantic profit and help them maintain their playerbase. What I want to see is some sort of new feature added, something like legendary challenges/quests/fights/whatever that refresh every so often and are hard to do. It doesn't need any absurdly good reward like you are proposing, it just needs to be there as a feature that a max level player is looking forward to try to accomplish every week.

And yeah, like housunkannatin said, managing 2 accounts is already enough of an incentive towards having a single account.

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Good ideas, but it better not give more advantages to multi accounters.

As for "absurdly good rewards" I just made a fast guess of how many I knew who would catch 1000 mons a week without plus/gotcha, or even 100 in a day. Certainly not many. Much fewer than those taking an occasional lvl 4/5 raid by themselves. Of course the reward/active effort has to be tuned, but the effort must be great and so the reward.

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I do 15 in six minutes (love you fast catch) just walking to the top of the block and back once without a gotcha. Doing 100/day isn't very difficult at all.

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what I'm saying is not about the rewards, so certainly it wouldn't give any advantage. The rewards could be minimal.

I'm talking about something like "achievements" or "challenge quests". Stuff that you actually want to do just for the satisfaction of succeeding, not for any potential rewards. The reward could just be "challenge points" for show off.
They could work like research and range in difficulty. There could be even extremely difficult stuff like "make 5 excellent curveballs in a row". A mock battle that appears like the research encounters that gives you a specific attacker to beat a specific defender and would require you to achieve a decent level of dodging. That would even help new players get used to the battle system. A challenge to beat a Gym defender with an attacker half his CP (hello prestiging my old friend). Maybe even be a "research raid" with some kind of special rule that you invite a friend and you try to beat it together.

It's something that could be easily implemented (just another tab in research UI) and would give some enjoyment/excitement to a lot of trainers. I doubt it even requires a lot of coding, it's just utilizing already existing mechanics

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Nice idea: beating a team of 6 pokemon that scales with your trainer lvl of one of the gym leaders of the main games. It can rotate monthly or weekly and can only be fought once a day for item rewards (like the new gen4 evo items) or to catch the signature pokemon of that trainer like a research reward.
To add some challenge you could be allowed to use only one pokemon of each kind (not cheesing Brock with 6 Kyogres)

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As a 3,5xlevel 40 with completed regional dex since March, I can attest to the fact that it can get boring. Basically what keeps me playing are the people, solo raid challenges (recently including pokedraft) and arbitrary goals I set for myself, like how fast I complete new medals, how many mons I've maxed etc. The game has felt stale for a while and I'm super hyped for big changes with gen 4.

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Once you've hit 40, done everything, there's nothing to give you a rush for the months between gens, bar day 1 of a brand new raid boss. No new mon. No sense of completion. That's enough of an incentive to start one: "wow! I finally got a [reasonably rare in the wild evolution]" retriggers that reward feeling.

I don't have a 2nd account, but I get a little thrill when my kids find something new. This weekend it was wild Ninetales, which they needed. (I'm at 375/377 and they're at 295/344)

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by hkn 5 years 6 months ago

To me, the root causes are:
1. Niantic trying too hard to push PoGo as a social game, but with limited social features.
2. Broken mechanics, glitches and unfair design that make cheating widely seen as acceptable.

The community tried to get around 1 with raid maps and social media groups, but Niantic destroyed the former, while the latter were prone to bullying and abuse.

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by mahzza 5 years 6 months ago

Remote feeding should just be abolished. You want to defend your gym? Be there. Otherwise, tough. This was never a "thing" before the gym rework, so it's not like Niantic would be gutting tradition by getting rid of it.

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I'm okay with this as long as I get a coin for every mon that I defeat. Keep the 50 a day limit. Otherwise, jerks just take you out of a gym after you have already left and you get nothing. I don't have time to camp out at a gym for hours defending it.

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Not unless they actually take action against spoofers. I keep hearing the term 'banwave' being thrown around seemingly again and again and somehow the same usual suspects from years ago still joystick around town. Keep remote feeding until they actually ban spoofers.

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I believe remote feeding only exists to balance the gap between legit players and spoofers.

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It was always a thing in Ingress. And the decay model is similar to how portals work in Ingress. It also gives you something to do while at home, when you can dump your excess berries to your gyms. If someone is actively defending a gym, just pick a different gym or wait 15 minutes and try again, they might not be actively watching the gym by then.

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IMO Niantic already found a way to balance multi accounts: stardust.
You can do all those things you mention in your list, but for many pokemon you raid, catch or trade you still need millions of stardust to power them up and actually use them. Plus millions stardust to trade shiny. You also need the coins to increase bag space, etc. And in summary, a lot of time to maintain the accounts operative. It's already hard to keep up with the maintenance of a single account, double time and effort for a second...and scalate for any number of accounts you can imagine.

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Soloing 4-5 Raids: No. BAD Suggestion. Bad bad bad. Entirely defeats the purpose of having a tier system for raiding if you can do any of them on your own.

Better Fix: Make some of the useful Pokemon ONLY available through Raids. Right now, that is limited to Absol - and even Absol is not that useful of a Pokemon. Mawlie and Alolan Marowak are really fun, but utterly useless.
-Not sure what Pokémon would apply for this from Gen 4 and onward; if I were to go back to the beginning, then Pokémon like Lapras and Snorlax would be in there, as well as potentially any Pokémon with no Evolution tree at the time, like Onix, Magmar, Electbuzz, Tangela, Chansey, Jynx, Porygon, etc. They wouldn't be available from Eggs until their Baby forms were released, and if they don't have Baby forms, then they are only available via Raiding and Trading
-Introduce a 10km Buddy Distance for these Pokémon to "encourage" Raiding them instead of walking them for Candies.

Another Fix: Make it so you need to "Defeat" a Pokemon in order to evolve it. For example, if you want a Gallade you have to beat it as a Kirlia. (which wouldn't work NOW, of course, just using that as an example)
-Make it so that a Pokemon needs a certain number of "Victories" in order to Evolve; using the Gallade example, make it so the Kirlia has to beat a certain number of opponents before it is ready to Evolve, and have it so every Kirlia who takes part in a Raid Battle gains a Victory, even if they faint before the final blow. This would make it worthwhile for players to hop on an AM raid to boost the amount of Victories their Kirlia has, and bring them closer to Evolving.

Active Play Rewards: Already got them - Research Tasks.

Feeding Gyms: Any solution that limits the players able to be feeding would be too complicated to implement and would be easily abused by Multi-Accounters. I have 2 accounts, I attack with two accounts - but I immediately run away with one account. How many accounts can defend now? I've got a Pokémon in the gym but only have a few GR's, and I see it first - I put on 2 GR's and wash my hands of it. How long until you can feed it a GR, because you want to defend it for longer? If there's an error or a cool down between which defenders can feed GR's, then the attacker is going to win. It's too much hassle for next to no benefit.

Better Fix: Gym Rework. Full tear-down and rebuild. The Gym system has always been the weakest part of Pokemon Go, and it's the one area that they consistently get wrong. It's going to take another full change to the Gym system, or two, or three, or nine, and it doesn't particularly matter if players have multi-accounts or not.

Trading Cooldown: Meh. Niantic has toned down the Lucky rates a great deal - something like 1/40 now, or even more rare (I've only gotten 1 Lucky Pokemon in my last 50ish trades, for example. A level 17 Abra that I traded with someone for an Alolan Vulpix, since they were new and had nothing I really wanted), so it would take wasting a LOT of good Pokemon before getting a Lucky. Not to mention that if you aren't Best Friends, it is almost guaranteed that the IV's for the Pokemon after the trade will be worse than before. (Just not as bad for Ultra Friends and it would be for Good Friends) And trading for Shiny's is great... except that Shiny's have no benefit, and cost a hell of a lot to get that new Shiny. Even for Best Friends, it's what - 40,000 Stardust for a new Shiny? If players want to waste 40,000 Stardust on two accounts for a Pokemon that is merely cosmetically different, have at it folks!

Level/IV/Weight: ...what? This point confuses me because "Weight" is utterly pointless in the game, Shininess is likewise pointless, while Level and IV are extremely important. I'm assuming you mean that you, Level 40 Trainer, and I, Level 4 trainer, never catch the same Pokémon? So if I catch a 100% Pokémon in the Wild, no one else can catch it because it's randomized? That would remove a rather significant motivation for many players to play the game as it removes the chance for catching a known 100% Pokémon - and a lot of players have that as a goal. It would take one of the few actually useful Social Aspects of the game - communicating the location of a specific Pokémon - out of the game, and would only lessen the game.

Lower catch rate/lower flee rate: Gotcha Abuse? How is this abused? Does Gotcha give a higher rate of catching than a GoPlus? Does Gotcha do Curveballs? Use Berries? Get Nice/Great/Excellent throws? How does one abuse a Gotcha?

I used to use a GoPlus. I stopped using it to catch Pokémon after Weather Boosts came out because my catch rate dropped from about 40% down to below 25%, and I just didn't care to waste that many Red Balls. So unless the catch rate has been upped on the Gotcha somehow, I don't see how there can be any significant abuse of a Gotcha/GoPlus.

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Taking the timer off 4-5 level raids is one of the best suggestions I have ever heard off. Have you ever tried to solo a tier 3 as a new player? With or without a timer it’s takes a lot of resources. Soloing a level 5 would cost 30-50+ revives and potions to the point you would still want/need others. I HATE the fact when you get one more person to join a raid to be able to beat it, just to see “TIMES UP!” Instead of the raid boss dying. That is not right in anyway. If we are that close, we should get something besides 500 stardust.

There should be a restriction on GRBs. I have ran into the time someone with 6 accounts filled a gym that I wanted to battle. Only to sit there for a few hours after they go through hundred of GBRs with every account. Revives and potions are a lot easier to come by then, GBRs, and if they want to use 400+ GRBs, then whatever. However, it’s comes to the point of a time thing, instead of a strategy thing. Maybe a Gym rework where the Pokémon dont demotivate and you feed for candys and stardust only. GRB should be given less at raids and used for mostly catching. Make gyms harder.

And what they mean by abusing a gotcha is that you don’t have to press any buttons. Just turn it on and go. Some had stated the trouble with maintaining Multiple accounts. I know people with 3-4 accounts that only ever play on one account except for raids. They do their daily catching and spinning by having multiple gotchas and never touch the other accounts. Niantic needs to change the raids, take away the timer, so that those in rural areas can save enough revives and potions to take down a legendary. This will demotivate multi accounts. Make it so that every re-entry heals the boss a little, and the more re-entry’s the less the rewards. Give bonuses for more people in the raid vs less to incentivize getting a group together, but don’t make it impossible for solo players.

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Taking away the Raid Timer won't do anything to help the game, and would only hurt it. It would remove a Game aspect and replaces it with a Grind aspect. It means you can never lose a Raid, you can only quit - and that's terrible. No, you should be able to fail at beating a Raid Boss - there should always be a chance that you lose. Always. Even against a Magikarp. Not simply that you quit, but you Lose.

As for the idea that removing the Timer to "demotivate multi-accounts", that won't work. At all. In any way. In fact, it would be more likely to ENCOURAGE Rural Players to multi-account, knowing that they can now beat that Legendary no matter what, so it's merely a case of how many Pokémon they lose. So if they have 2 accounts, they will lose the same amount of Pokemon - and still win - only spread out across 2+ accounts. They will spread out the damage across two (or more) accounts, saving Potions and Revives. (which are often in very short supply even for Urban and Suburban players; I've used up 60 Max Revives since Mewtwo dropped, and I've gone 4 straight 7 Day Streak spins without getting a single Revive on the 7 Day Streak.) If they have 3 accounts, they lose the same amount of Pokémon, just spread over 3 accounts. And so on.

You toss in Friendships for those accounts, and as they get higher up on the Frienships they do more damage, so win faster and lose less Pokémon, get more chances to catch the Raid Boss (unless you want to remove that aspect of the Game too, and you always get to catch the Raid Boss after you beat it - we're talking about removing "Lose" conditions here, and that's a doozy. How many players have lost 100% Raid Bosses because they ran out of balls?).

Really, losing the Raid Timer would just be begging players to make secondary accounts. And tertiary accounts. And however other many accounts they can play on and still function.

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The raid timer is the NUMBER ONE reason every person uses multi accounts. Every single person I’ve asked why they use multiple accounts, the first answer is, to be able to take down a raid boss. Other answers now are for trading, for taking down gyms, for adding to gyms. However, 90% people I’ve talked to that multi account, mention that without a raid timer, they wouldn’t use multiple accounts. Before raids were a thing, how many legitimate players used multiple accounts?

Yes there should be a way to lose a raid, it’s called running out of revives/potions. I guarantee that revives and potions would hold a much higher value than they do now without a raid timer. Pokémon that have never been used before would be used. TDO would have a meaning.

There should be a raid timer that counts up for world record times and such, but having to beat a level 3 shuckle with one account should in no way be impossible. And rural players should stand a chance to take down a raid boss without using a third party app (discord/Facebook)

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The challenge is still there, it would be a rather daunting challenge to take down one of the tougher legendaries by yourself. By far more challenging than go in with the suggested Aggron team together with 19 others.

The best solution to me would be a Boss-HP based on level and number of participants. The higher the tier the less margin to catch it.

Tier 1 would be a easy, but not that easy it is today.

Tier 5 would be very hard, requiring you to have top counters and perhaps to make it even harder, have the bosses change move sets during the fight, so the trainers had to change their teams accordingly. One exceptional good lvl 28 player would be able to do it alone (but how many lvl 28 players have several full teams of top counters?), but ten lvl 35-40 players using suggested mons would fail miserable. Close to full 5 minutes would be required even in large groups. That would be a challenging raid I would like to do.

Of course that would not be enough to reduce raiding-multiaccounting, but a need for more active fighting would do that. Today it is just stupid tapping on one spot for several minutes.

First summer the Alakazam solo-raid was a great challenge, dodging and trying to fire your charge moves could a sometimes frustrating business, but at least it took some sort of "skill". To include a more "skill"-based fighting at higher tier raids would probably do the trick.

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The thing is that with only fast and charge moves, smaller damage multipliers than in the main games (x1,4 instead of x2 for super effective) and no abilities or status effects combat is essentially screen tapping 90% of the time with optimized counters, almost no raid bosses require dodging besides some extrem cases (and frankly PvP could really be just screen tapping too with the current combat, no idea why so much hype around it)
Anyways removing timers is silly since this is supposed to be a social game. As a rural player i had to learn to solo T3 but when i discovered my local community i met so many interesting and fun people (and some weirdos too), and we share the location of local nests or good research quests. Being able to do everything by yourself would kill any need for interaction, and already being able to solo T3 seems like a mistake from Niantic since they are dubbed "small group raid". The raid system is one of the better aspects of this game as it is right now (stale when reaching lvl 40 and between generations) and the only real challenge for now

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The raid challenge today is rather limited.
If three people is the absolutt minimum for a raid, everything above five is a piece of cake. The challenge is nonexistent above ten participants.

A time limit is ok for me, as it makes a challenge no matter if you are single or full lobby. Of course the challenge could be greater with fewer, but not removed with greater numbers.

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