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How important is IV, or, what IV is sufficient?

I've been wondering how close to 15 for each of the IV levels is sufficient for gym use?

I'd love to see a comprehensive analysis of what levels for each of the three levels is sufficient compared to perfect IVs. For example, I would suppose that the playing difference between 14/14/14 and 15/15/15 would almost be buried in the "noise" of play, while one may notice 10/10/10 to be observably worse.

To me this is an important topic since searching for the perfect IV+perfect move set is like searching for the Holy Grail. Move set is obviously very important, but how important is it to have almost perfect to perfect IV?

Asked by jonn6 years 11 months ago
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Answers

by thetwo 6 years 11 months ago

Gym attacking - it doesn't really matter, as a few power ups extra will make a low IV attacker just as strong as a high IV attacker. That being said, those extra power ups cost stardust and candy, so it makes more sense to power up higher IV attackers, and the higher the better to save on resources.

Prestiging - IV is irrelevant, as you are just shooting for 1000 prestige against everything but Blissey

Defending - IV is everything if you are maxing a high CP defender and need to get as far from the bottom of the gym as possible. That being said, an 82% Tyranitar is still going to out max CP a 100% Snorlax, so the need varies by species and your areas typical defenders.

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I'm fairly clueless on some of the basics, obviously.

So, for a gym defender, what role does a higher defense IV stat play besides simply padding the overall CP for gym position?

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Even 0/0/0 IVs wouldn't be observably worse. The only thing you might notice is if you were counting the number of hits before your Pokemon fainted and you were dodging everything, where HP would make a difference.

Attack and defence IVs usually only make a difference to charge moves and a minor one at that. +1 damage to a quick move is the most beneficial but even then it's only against Blissey where it realistically makes a difference since it's the only Pokemon there's a risk of timing out against and where you attack it enough times for those +1s to make a difference.

But only looking at the HP bar go down, you won't notice the difference between your HP bar going 11% down rather than 10% due to your max HP being lower.

If you're looking for a defender it's fine to be anal about IVs. But if you're looking for an attacker where 100 CP is only a difference in text and not gameplay, usually evolving higher level Pokemon to save yourself candy on power ups is the smart choice.

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Good points that make my decision difficult. I have 3 level 20 Larvitars that are 91%. I also have a level 30 that is 43%. If I got bite/se or c, I would be happy with the level 30 one, anything else would be disapointing. Any moveset except for it/fb would be acceptable on the level 20s, but then I need the candies to power them up.

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I'm in the same boat. But to make my decision easier I transferred the lvl 30 very low IV larvitar. That way I don't have to think about any more.

regrets maybe, but it is done.

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John,
Everything could change if/when Niantic changes the gym play.
but for now here is how I play.

Since CP is currently king in gyms, I try to make sure that the mons that I want to place on top of gyms have the highest CP possible, thus I need the IVs to be as close to 100 as I can get.

Moveset is king when attacking gyms, IVs are merely a blip on the radar compared to the tsunami of importance for the moveset.
As someone posted awhile ago
species>moveset>CP>IV

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I agree, but stress your "everything could change". In that case investing in highest IV possible will be always a safe bet. Because if they get more relevance you will be able to adapt to the changes. The best stats will be always the best stats

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by Data10 6 years 11 months ago

Gym Defending -- Having a high CP is critical for staying in gyms. CP depends first on species and next on IV. The CP formula weights attack heavily, so attack IV is generally more important, particularly for mons with low base attack, like Blissey. For example, if you need a 3000 CP for a good gym position, then a caught in wild ~60% IV Tyranitar is sufficient on level 30; but a 100% Gyarados would require a much larger stardust investment for gym usage, as it would need to be powered up to lev 34.

Gym Attacking -- In general IV is less important than with defenders, but damage rounding thresholds can be important. For example, in a Tyranitar vs Blissey battle, a 14 attack IV Tyranitar would take ~15 more seconds to win than a 15 attack IV Tyranitar, if the Blissey was ~2.5 levels higher (and had perfect defense IV). This large difference relates to crossing a damage threshold, where bite does 4 damage with 14 attack and 5 damage with 15 attack IV. If you aren't crossing a damage threshold, then IVs are less important, but higher is better.

Prestigers -- In general, IVs are less important than the other categories. In theory, a presitiger with 0 attack combined with perfect defense/stamina is best due to the attack heavy CP formula. However, this can change when crossing damage rounding thresholds, like with attackers.

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What I get from your answer is that for attacking gyms, having a 15 attack stat is likely to be noticeably better than a 14 attack stat because of "damage rounding thresholds" (does this universally apply? If so, what are the various thresholds?)

Stamina would be the next important, I suppose, for a gym attacker if nothing else how long before it faints.

What about the defense stat for a gym attacker? I assume this is irrelevant, or does that also have some impact?

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Important to gym placement and most importantly, trainer's vanity.

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For the longest time I used to only keep wonders. Now that I'm past 30 and occasionally catch a high leveled mon I sometimes make exceptions. I caught a wild of 30 machop and Larvitar surfing this event. Both are 65% I will hold on to them.

If they were level 20 - to the prof.!

I would not drop dust on anything below 89% and even then only rare mons with the best moveset. All of my dusted mons are over 90% with the exception being my only Stone Edge Rhyhorn at 89.

I have a few 70-80% rare mons for prestige or attack: Electabuz (dual thunder) Lapras(dual ice) lv30 Aerodactly and Pinsir too.

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To add to the great answers here:
Consider creating a simple spreadsheet, using "real life" examples of common mons. I did this for grass attackers prestiging against vapes, and concluded that more often then not there was NO difference in quick move attack damage over a wide range of either levels or IV values - the floor() function smooths these out. Clearly there are exceptions - the T-rex vs Blissey example someone posted - if a +1 threshold is crossed and it's a long battle. The most reliable stat that helps prestigers is stamina, where a 0 to 15 difference is about 10-11 HP (depending on level) - could be crucial to survive additional dodges.
Also, Reddit threads on prestiging assume a "perfect prestiger" at 0 attack / 0 defense/ 15 stamina, to most efficiently max CP differential and thereby gain most gym prestige.
Of course, who knows what will change with the gym rework!

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by jonn 6 years 11 months ago

I want to thank those who have replied so far and others who hopefully will reply.

I'm mostly interested in an army of Pokemon to take down gyms, but obviously prestiging is important as well.

I'm especially curious about the role of the Defensive stat in the Attack/Defense/Stamina triplet. Other than maxing out CP to get a Defender into a higher position in a gym, in what other way(s) does the Defense stat and its variation play a significant role?

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To answer your question, I took a specific matchup (L30 DB/DC Dragonite VS ZH/DG Blissey, dodge all) and ran a batch simulation. 256 simulations were conducted (DEF x STM = [0,15] x [0,15]) holding everything else constant.
The detailed results of each simulation are presented in a worksheet (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4ketT7DHs89UC03NVRTLUVXTXM), which are summarized as follows:
Defense IV and Stamina IV had almost the same effect. Due to the rounding, Defense IV might take every 5-6 points to actually make a difference while STM IV might only take 3-4, but each difference made by DEF is usually more significant (a jump).
This could be more obvious if the difference in DEF iv could make a point of damage less/more in attacker's quick attack - that would be really a big jump. In this specific matchup up, however, Dragonite's Dragon Breath will do 5 damage to Blissey no matter the DEF IV of the latter.

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Well, to illustrate my total cluelessness (and a Google search has yet come up with a simple answer, surprisingly), what exactly do each of the 3 quantities (Attack/Defense/Stamina) define? And I ask this for the two situations where a Pokemon is either an Attacker or a Defender.

For example, my current assumption for the Defense level is that it represents the "resistance" a Pokemon has to a quick/charge move hit. Thus the Defense level applies to both Attacking and Defending modes. Am I right on this, or am I way off?

Why these three quantities are not simply and specifically defined and how they play out for both Attackers and Defenders mystifies me, as there is more than one interpretation to what they represent. Even this site does not address this in a meta-comprehensive way in the Fundamentals sections.

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As an answer to my own question, a further Google search found some core definitions of Attack, Defense, and Stamina. And not surprisingly I had misinterpreted what Stamina meant (in some ways not the best word to use). Here's what I found, and something like this (maybe improved wording) should be included in any fundamentals of the game:

Attack determines the base damage that is dealt, and it combines with the attack power of a move to determine the base damage of said move.

Defense determines how much or little damage you take when you get attacked.

Stamina determines how quickly you’ll charge special moves when you attack a rival. The higher a stamina rating, the faster the special move will charge up.

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For an attacker I'd say it need not matter. I caught a wild 40 IV DB/DC Dragonite (at 700 CP or so) september last year. Now it is a 2916CP level 31. I have treasured it ever since and it has been through, probably every single gym battle I've attempted after I got it to a useful CP.

Of course, there were those times when that low IV hurt a bit. For example when I could have taken one more quick move before fainting (and that one more quick move meant I could deal another 3 dragon breaths to finish the enemy etc). But it really goes down to marginal situations like that.

For the big picture, no it doesn't matter. As far as an attacker goes, species, moveset matters more than IV.

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