Big PvP 4: Metagross/Tyranitar/Gyarados/Dragonite
Getting real tired of seeing these guys in Ultra/master league
Metagross is the worst, it's pretty common, insanely strong and there isn't really a generic hard counter at that tier unless you go for PC/FT Mewtwo. B/C Tyranitar probably wouldn't beat it.
Tyranitar: Counters Dragonite and can probably win a DPS race WF/HP Gyarados with Rock loadout, Should lose in a DPS race with Metagross even with B/C
Gyarados: The weakest of the lot but the most common since everyone has one
Dragonite: Just a bit better than Gyarados but neutral to everything
How do you guys counter them?
The only one I can think of is Kyogere.
All weak/neutral to a pair of Kyos with HP + Thunder and HP + Blizzard and they deal either neutral or resisted damage to it
Only thing Kyo isn't good against is Mewtwo but they aren't really that common because majority can't really afford to max them and they are kind of overdependent on their charge moves firing (which is kind of a problem with their low def)
What do you guys think of the meta?
Answers
Ttar, Dnite and Gary I find are easy to counter and beat. They are doubly weak to fighting, ice and electric as well as a handful of other weaknesses.
Metagross is really the only problem for me. It has many exploitable weaknesses, but is bulky enough to take a few hits and meteor mash is just too good. Fire types aren't very common but I personally have a maxed out Entei, that has been destroying Metagross. I bring it with me always. Heatran when it comes out, will be a hard counter to both BP/ZH/MM Metagross. Assuming of course your opponent has not paid the absurd price of a second move for Earthquake.
I like your confidence but there's a difference between knowing about an exploitable weakness and actually exploiting it
I wouldn't carry an Entei, since it will get owned by both Rock TT and Gary
Heatran being Metagross's hard counter will get a bunch of neckbeards up in arms about "OP legendaries" and the people on the other side of the fence crying about the lack of candy to power it up. And it's much easier to pay for Earthquake since we had many good chances to farm Beldum candy
I would really love me squad of Kyos
Honestly it's really all about having a diverse team. In my area, it seems players are still learning that PvP isn't the same as raiding, since I see a lot of players coming in with teams of three of the exact same pokemon.
Rock Ttar for example isn't a problem, since I too bring my Metagross to counter it. I just switch into it if it hasn't already been defeated. Entei isn't the best example, but its doing wonders for me right now and it's great fun so that's why I mentioned it.
One strong counter for Metagross coming down the pike is Empoleon. Double resists steel, and carries Hydro Pump or Hydro Cannon (after CD) and Blizzard. There are also other fire options - BB Charizard stands out as a good one. And of course, Houndoom packs both Fire and Dark, so there's a lot of coverage there.
Metagross is really good, but nothing is unbeatable. In the final analysis, if it's too tough, then that's the time to use your shields and hit it again and again.
I mean, if it were a perfect counter, then the best team would be three MM Metagrosses. Doubt that team will have much success over the long haul.
My experience has been quite different, as I really haven't seen any of these 4 in overabundance. Tyranitar has been the most commonly used of the four, followed by Metagross. I've only seen Dragonite pop up a few times, and it's usually with legacy moves. DB/DC is a beastly combo in PvP. I've not once seen anyone use Gyarados at any league.
The Mon I've seen most frequently in the ultra/master leagues is Mewtwo.
For me, Metagross is the easiest. I gave Garry an extra move and bite as fast move. B/C Garry recks it and so does Groudon. add SB M2 and usually 2/3 of my team will counter it with SE damage taking only neutral or resisting it. My M2 also carry TB, so that covers Garry. Another good Master league regular is DB/DC Latios which handle Dragonite.
I don't see metagross such a problem. It's one of the strongest pokemon, so it makes sense to add it to your team. But it does have several counters and it lacks coverage moves against them. Crunch Gyarados or SB Mewtwo crash it at the master league and gengar adds as counter at the ultra league. Mewtwo also covers against dragonite with ice moves and gyarados against tyranitar with hydro pump... There's almost an equilibrium already, xD.
All of them but Metagross are outright horrible in PVP. I like people who use those because it just means that my Metagross and Zapdos can destroy them.
I'm actually seeing myself using Giratina, Earthquake Groudon and Zapdos a lot, and all 3 of these are way more efficient than any of the pokemon you listed above with the exception of Metagross, which isn't unmanageable as long as you have moltres, zapdos or shadow ball mewtwo, or even your own metagross with an earthquake sub move in it.
Perfect shielding or switching is more of an issue than any pokemon, because that is what allows your team to be swept.
These are all fairly easy to counter. If this is your meta, us metagross, Mewtwo, and Groudon
Groudon is a great closer after the opponent has used both shields. With earthquake and solar beam, it counters metagross and tyranitar.
Metagross is good all-around. I'd recommend earthquake as it's second charge and do NOT use zen headbutt on it.
Mewtwo would have shadow ball and either ice beam or thunderbolt. That deals with metagross (again, which is important) and then either dragonite or Gyarados.
If you wanted, you can swap one of them for a rock type, but that's hard to choose. Tyranitar isn't great (in my opinion). Also, smack down leaves something to be desired...
Trying to see what rock attackers could go into the third slot. Maybe swap Rhyperior for Groudon? I haven't tried it, but Groudon builds up those charge moves fast.
Nobody uses Gyarados; Its attacks are slower than molasses and are easy shield fodder, and Kyogre is a far more superior pokemon in pvp (That's not saying a lot because more often than not my Giratina or Zapdos blasts them before they can even cast a charged move.)
As for Rhyperior it is not good in pvp, because Mud Slap is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than Mud Shot. Earthquake is good but mud slap clearly isn't.
Have you considered Fire Blast/Solar Beam Ho-Oh with steel wing as its primary?
Does well against Ttar assuming you can get solar beam off, hits Metagross pretty hard with fire blast as well as resisting metagross' most common moveset of BP/EQ/MM, gets a little owned by gary and dragonite admittedly, but there aren't really better alternatives.
Kyogre with Dragon Tail/Hydro Pump/Thunder is only other decent option FOR NOW. I'm 95% sure legacy dragon tail kyogre was a thing bu his page doesn't show it anymore so maybe im wrong?
Cut/Beam/Ball Mewtwo is good against that whole field to some extent, hitting for SE damage against everything by Gary, but getting a bit owned by Ttar.
Here's my question: If these are all the big 4, why are you trying to counter the lot of them with just 1 mon? why not build a team to counter them? Bolt/Beam Mewtwo covers Dnite and gary, Ho-Oh rocks it as a generalist and eats both MM Meta and TTar for breakfast, and a meteor mash metagross of your own to absolutely dominate TTar and secure wins against another metagross rounds out the team.
I really haven't seen Gyarados or Dragonite being used at all. Tyrannitar seems to be pretty common, metagross somewhat. Actually seeing mewtwo a lot. My main team set up has been Metagross and Gyarados to counter ttar and mewtwo, then a third pokemon that I have been changing up. Exeggutor with confusion + psychic and seedbomb has been really great. BB Charizard slots in nicely as well. Think I'm going to try out my Arcanine as well. It has legacy flame thrower, snarl seems to be a pretty powerful fast move, could be a solid metagross counter. Plus access to wild charge as a second move creates a pretty wide range of coverage for the team.
