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Poliwrath's Best Charge Move?

I currently have two Poliwraths that I'm considering powering up to use as a defender. One has Bubble/Ice Punch and the other has Bubble/Hydro Pump. I'm not sure which is the better charge move of the two. I can see Ice Punch being useful since it's a multi-charge bar move and it's super effective against Grass types (will most likely be attacked by Exeggutor). On the other hand to my understanding Hydro Pump is better because it allows Poliwrath to get off more Bubbles. In my opinion Hydro Pump is easier to dodge though. Any advice would be appreciated!

Edit: Thanks everyone for the replies. I'll power up the Ice Punch Poliwrath. :)

Asked by VanityDestroyer7 years 4 months ago
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Answers

If we're talking about for defense here, then Ice Punch is absolutely the best option for type-coverage against Poliwrath's weaknesses and Dragonites attacking into him.

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That's what I think also. Why do you suppose this same logic doesn't apply to Slowbro with Ice Beam?

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I think that the same logic does apply to Slowbro. IB is superior to Water Pulse as a defender, but nothing can compete with STAB Psychic charge move. It's largely unresisted in the current meta, and two-bar charge move with STAB on defense is going to hit harder for longer -- similar to IB on a Lapras.

For Slowbro, Confusion / Ice Beam is a serviceable defending moveset -- just not as good as Confusion / Psychic.

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Because Psychic is STAB, more powerful, and generally unresisted by common attackers.

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Yes I was talking about defense. I'll edit that in to make it more clear. Thank for your input.

Wouldn't a STAB Hydro Pump do more damage though than non-STAB Ice Punches assuming everything is dodged?

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If everything is dodged, yes. But dodging Hydro Pump is relatively easy. Ice Punch comes at you fast and often. Plus the fact that Grasses and Dragonite are weak to ice and Grasses are strong against water.

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One STAB HP will outperform an Ice punch, of course. But not when you take into account Super Effective type damage, move duration, and the fact that Ice Punch is a three-bar charge move, which means you'll be able to use it much more often.

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For defense, the Ice Puncher. I don't see a lot of Poliwraths in gyms anymore since the Rhydon Revolution, but when I do, I usually use Exeggutor against him and am respectfully flummoxed when they start Ice Punching. Hard to dodge, packs a wallop.

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Why would you want to be using Bubble more often when it does less DPS than your charge moves?

As a defender, you want to be using your charge move more often to increase your overall DPS, and Ice Punch does that better than Hydro Pump, and on top of that, like you said, it provides better coverage against Pokemon that are likely to be attacking into Poliwrath.

Also 100 energy moves tend to have more energy wasted because the gym AI sucks, which is also a bigger deal on Poliwrath because Bubble has 25 energy per use.

For example if a Vaporeon uses 2 Water Guns at full energy before using it's charge move, that's only 14 energy wasted. If a Poliwrath uses 2 Bubbles at full energy, that's 50 energy wasted.

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Oh. I was under the assumption that Bubble was the exception since it's the strongest quick move for defense. Why do some people say that Hydro Pump is best for defense still?

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Probably because they don't consider all factors and just look at the DPS values.

Same reason why people think Cross Chop is the best charge move in the game (it's not) or Stone Edge beats Earthquake on Rhydon.

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Stone Edge is just better because of the type coverage it offers, and we also have the theoretical crit chance -- which should be implemented at some point lol.

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The three types that Stone Edge is SE against that Earthquake isn't, you wouldn't use a Rhydon to attack into anyway.

Nor would anyone attack into a Rhydon with anything other than a Water or Grass type Pokemon, so you aren't covering anything.

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The correct answer here is Submission. It's STAB and it is confusing as can possibly be from an animation standpoint. Hydro Pump will not be SE against any realistic attacker and is easy to dodge. Of the two, Ice Punch is better on D, and it's terrific, just not as good as Submission.

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Well the OP doesn't have one with Submission, otherwise yeah, it's better overall. Ice Punch against the Grasses is slightly better though, and that's what I trend to use against him.

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Submission is NVE against poliwrath's most common counter, exeggutor. Where ice punch is SE.

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Not just Exeggutor. Fighting is also NVE against poison typing (not sure how that works thematically), so people who still use Victreebel / Venusaur / Vileplume would also have a harder time against Ice Punch than against Submission.

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