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A List of the Best Prestigers in Current Meta

Hi guys,

I'm summarizing some work I found on this thread that was done after the CP update:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/5l9jtr/wartortle_ivysaur_are_excellent_for_prestiging_cp/

Here is a list of the best prestigers in terms of cp efficiency against the most common defenders in the current meta:

Against Vaporeon (Water gun Water Pulse)：
---Venusaur, Ivysaur, Tangela (100%)
---Paresect (Bug Bite, Solar) (96%)

Against Rhydon (Mud Slap Stone Edge)：
---Tangela (100%)
---Parasect (95%)

Against Gyarados:
---Chansey (Zen and Dazzling) (97%)
---Electrode (95%)

Against Snorlax (with ZH):
---Chansey (184%)
---Hypno (92%)
---Wigglytuff (88%)
---(Raticates CP efficiency against Snorlax is only 71%)

Against Exeggutor (ZH, Psychic):
---Chansey (Pound and Hyper) (159%)
---Butterfree (Bug Bite Bug Buzz) (98%)
---Parasect (But Bite and X-Scissor) (91%)

Against Lapras:
---Slowpoke (Water gun Psychic) (98%)
---Tentacruel (Poison Jab, Sludge) (91%)
---Wigglytuff (91%)

Against Dragonite::
---Dewgong (90%)

Honourable Mentions:
Best Fire Prestiger:
Ninetales (75%)

Best Water:
Slowpoke (96%)
Wartortle, Blastoise (89%)

I was surprised that Raticate is not that good. And surprised to see Slowpoke, Tentacruel and Wartortle on these lists and that Butterfree is better than Parasect against Exeggutor!

Please note I did not include Pokemon whose max CP is under 900 at level 30. Also, if the moves of the Prestiger or Defender aren't listed, just assume the Defender's best attacks or Prestigers highest DPS attack set.

Did I miss any Pokemon that are better than the ones I have listed here?

Asked by waterlooyo7 years 3 months ago

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Answers

Nice! Thanks for sharing and nice write-up.

Funny thing, I've actually been finishing up a little prestige work of my own today.

Important note, though - I exclude any Pokemon w/ max (lvl 30) CP under 1300....including Chansey.

1 - Chansey throws off all of the %'s b/c it's by far the most 'efficient' prestiger. Howeeevverr....

2 - These efficiency calculations don't calculate the chance of you timing out. The majority of times you use Chansey you're going to have a tough time winning within the time limit.

3 - Chansey is super rare. I've caught 23,000 Pokemon and I've seen 8 Chansey - only one with Pound...and obviously not Hyper Beam. The odds that you caught a Chansey with the perfect moveset AND powered it up to the right CP, are slim.

...

As far as max CP goes, I'm not sure about your area but > 95% of the time I'm looking for Mons in the 1200-1500 range...and I can't count on finding that perfect lvl 30 Slowpoke/Abra/whatever with the right moveset

So I'm just trying to keep things as 'real-world' as possible

....

I was doing all sorts of calculations but then realized, you literally only need 3 Pokemon/movesets to cover almost 100% of prestige situations. (The rankings are a composite of the different defensive movesets weighted for strength/frequency)

1) Wigglytuff - Pound/Hyper Beam

What a beast. By far the best overall prestiger.

vs. Gyarados - #1
Barely beats out Electrode when considering Dragon Pulse/Twister as charge moves (resists Dragon attacks) - He's #1 vs. both of them and #5 or 6 vs. HP
vs. Lapras - #1 (Tie)
Basically a tie with Tentacruel w/ Jab/Sludge. While it is slightly less effective vs. both Ice Beam/Blizzard, it is more effective vs. Dragon Pulse...AND Wiggles does a whopping 20% more DPS. So to me, he takes the win
vs. Snorlax - #1
Without any doubt the most effecient prestiger to use vs. any Snorlax. Hypno is a bit more efficient vs. ZH Snorlaxes (by ~5%) but is way worse (~30%) vs. Lick. Also, does about 25% more DPS. So...yeah. The best

2) Parasect - BB/Solar

vs. Rhydon - #1
Surprisingly, not only more resilient than water/grass types (b/c of Ground type resistance) but ALSO the highest DPS. The clear favorite
vs. Vaporeon - #4
Second only to a 3-way tie between Venusaur/Ivysaur/Tangela w/ Whip/Solar...however while it's 4% less efficient, Parasect does 6% more DPS. So it's hanging right in there.

3) Dewgong - FB/Blizz

vs. Dragonite - #1
Don't really need to explain this one. I can usually beat 2 Dragonites twice my CP with sloppy dodging
vs. Exeggutor - #4
Behind only 2 Butterfree Movesets and 1 Parasect. Bugs are the clear winner here, but a) how often do you see Egg anymore....and b) when else are you going to use the bug 'mons? Exactly

Between those 3 Pokemon/movesets alone, you have top 5 prestigers vs. 95+% of Defenders you're going to see!!
Dragonite
Snorlax
Lapras
Gyarados
Rhydon
Vaporeon
Exeggutor

I have done a similar work - for these seven defenders you list I have benchmarked my prestigers (I have also added Jolteon as an eighth defender).

My performance metric takes into consideration Defender time-to-faint and Attacker time-to-faint for each of the eight type defenders (assuming they have top A-rated moves). I apply a bubble-sort inspired sorting algorithm to identify top performers at specific CP levels using this performance metric.

I will compare my findings to yours when at my computer where my spreadsheet resides at the moment.

This answer coupled with initial post makes the best post and answer pair since I read those QAs.

Excellent analysis, one of the best I've seen! Printing it out for reference :) Many thanks!!!

I wonder if CP efficiency is the best metric to look at, because as I understand the damage formula, the effect of level decreases as the mon's level approaches its maximum. So, at some level, a top tier attacker that is not completely powered up might be a very efficient prestiger. In other words good base stats and IV at a low level might lead to efficient prestiging. I've been lazy and haven't done the math, but I've started constructing my prestige team this way, and it seems to work ok. Thoughts?

If you've got a team of Wigglytuffs, low CP Vapes and maybe a Dragonite or two, you can pretty much take out anything prestiging.

I have two DB/DC Dragonites for prestiging, one 1178 CP for my <1200CP prestige team, and the other 1432 CP for my <1433CP prestige team. Both have mediocre IVs (both are catches). They do a nice amount of damage but honestly they feel about as fragile as a Gengar. I think if it weren't for the low CD time of DC I wouldn't use them as much.

This is very interesting as prestiging adds a further complication to ordinary brute-force beating down enemy gyms - the CP efficiency aspect.

The issue I see with Chansey is its relative weak attack, which increases the risk of facing a time-out. Does the original Reddit work take this into consideration?

In my view there is a balance between two extremes - 1) Alakazam-style glass cannons that tend to faint fast and 2) weak-hitting but robust tanks like Chanseys that tend to face time-out all too often.

The original Reddit work did not calculated if and when you might time-out but acknowledge this is highly probable and that is why they did not set chansey as benchmark. But for (arithmetic?) accuracy they kept it. This is why you see result higher than 100% for chansey.
I also think they advised against using Chansey since you might be able to prestige twice with a better mon that will get you 700-800 prestige per fight (X2 = 1500) while prestiging one time with Chancey, so actual efficiency is not there.

OK. Thanks for clarifying.

The same person made more posts detailing exactly that for common gym defenders. For instance against Lapras IS/IB he says: Chansey times out with all strategies (dodging all or just dodging charge moves) except Quick & Special (no dodge), with which she faints.
This is exactly what I experienced "in real life". These posts are very interesting. See
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheSilphRoad/comments/5p46ag/training_against_lapras_cp_efficiency/
The links to other defenders are at the bottom of the post.

Rugjuice has of course already given a perfect summary above of everything you will find in these calculations!

very interesting. And confirms that I was right to keep my 1000CP WG/HP wartortle :) a great prestiger

many of my prestiger are in your list (including the surprising hypno). I can confirm that wg/psy slowpoke is great, I have one that I keep as a general counter, in case I miss a dodge with my main prestiger.

I haven't found my perfect lapras counter yet, even tho my ms/sub poliwrath does a fine job. I'll have to try with the one you suggested to see how much of an improvement they are (ms/sub are both fast, you can dodge every single attack while using them).

I regret throwing away so many low CP hypnos/tentacruels/butterfrees months ago :(