Why trading isn't right for Pokemon go
The usual cliche argument is that if was a key part of the main games, blah blah blah.
This argument is totally irrelevent because in the maingames if you decide to have two accounts, you have to devote twice as much time to the game. Apart from being able to acquire all the starters and other pokemon that aren't available (depending which version of the game you have) there's little benefit to having multiple accounts. You might aswell spend twice as much time on one account instead.
Wheras in GO you can have have six accounts but you still only have to walk once to a raid. Get six Tyranitars, give yourself six times the chance of getting a perfect one, trade it onto your main account. That's how trading would be in Pokemon Go. And i'm not getting started on the benefit spoofers would have!
This would obviously be ridiculous and break the game, no restrictions they put in place would prevent this sort of thing. So i don't think trading will ever be right for pokemon go.
I'm torn on this issue. On the one hand, using trades to fill out one's pokedex is appealing, but the potential for abuse is pretty strong. "Send $20 and I'll trade you a perfect IV Mewtoo with your choice of moves."
It would be nice if mom, playing for fun with her kids, could trade them her best mon for their third best. But is that worth opening the can of worms that spammers could make money off of? Not sure. And suppose someone trades a level 40 Mewtoo to a level 10 player. They'll definitely be punching above their weight (unless the game automatically reduces the mon to an allowable level, which would help balance things.)
But the argument of walking 6 phones to a raid doesn't help - we can do that with or without trading.
But the argument of walking 6 phones to a raid doesn't help - we can do that with or without trading.
Yeah but at least they can't all be traded onto one account..
There's various reason why trading would be bad for go and you've raised some more there. Too many people want it just to fill out their pokedex without thinking of the consequences.
I would like to be able to trade my son my 3rd best Zapdos which is better than his best.
That said, it would almost almost require some sort of bluetooth type trading to prevent spoofers from selling pokemon.
I would also personally advocate there should be a timer on an account for logging out, before you can log back in. 3 minutes.
The thing is, just because things are "abusable" doesn't mean that good people should be punished by not allowing them.
I'll go a step farther: Anyone who uses a discord, heck even uses the IV calculator on this site, is technically a TOS breaking cheater. So because people look up IVs on 3rd party sites, means PMG should get rid of IVs????
No it doesnt.
Yes man, yessss
I'm glad we're in an agreement. I would love to see trading implemented, even if there is a possibility of a small proportion of players profiting.
I also figure a greater proportion of players will benefit compared to the smaller proportion that multi account or wish to engage in any future black market activity
I would love to be able to trade with friends or others and share my surplus of legendaries with those who couldn't catch them for whatever reason. I don't like cheaters but ultimately how does it affect me if someone buys a 100% Ttar? Not at all. It doesn't devalue the 98% one I hatched, walked, and evolved or the 93% one I caught in a raid.
I would also personally advocate there should be a timer on an account for logging out, before you can log back in. 3 minutes
That's useless, it will just force mulitaccount users to buy second phone. Have you ever seen persons with 3-4 phones at raid?
it would almost almost require some sort of bluetooth type trading to prevent spoofers from selling pokemon.
Something like that should be presented, but it is not enough, it only make things a little bit complicated: spoofer transfer desired mon to a disposeable account, you log in to this account and transfer this mon via "BT protected in person contact only, bla bla protected trading". If it will be "trade every mon only once" spoofers will just create new account for every mon.
Contrary to the majority of the preceding responses, I want trading in this game. I understand this comment will inevitably receive downvotes due to my stance, but I would like to see it implemented.
My view is: I don't care if somebody multi accounts to increase the likelihood of getting a perfect Iv Pokémon. Functionally, a Pokémon (for example, dragonite) with 0% ivs has 93% of its overall stats (yes, cumulative stats, NOT ivs. This number much lesser for Pokémon with low base stat totals) compared to a 100% of its species.
In the case of dragonite, a dragonite with 80% ivs has 98% of its total stats compared to a perfect variant. Functionally, the difference is negligible in a practical context.
For those that highly value high Iv Pokémon, that's where you and I differ in opinions. If anything, from my experience a raids, they serve more as a purpose to brag or humblebrag.
Having 6 of the same species probably helps significantly in raids, but me PERSONALLY I could care less about raids.
I have been playing this game since the start in anticipation of the release of some sort of PvP system. I am saving my stardust and only investing in ones that I think will perform well in PvP. It is definitely a view and playstyle that the many others do not hold, but that's where I stand. I believe that, similar to the main series, players will be limited to one species per team, which is why the argument that multi accounted wil benefit in this context, is irrelevant to my stance. I could be wrong and Niantic could think otherwise, but I have enough faith that the Pokémon company will intervene.
I want trading because, as you mentioned Harry, it was a major key in the main series and will also allow me to trade with my friends, whom the majority of which aren't high level players, just as we used to do back in the elementary school days to help foster the nostalgia. I say this understanding it is a cliche argument and that a black market will be inevitable.
I understand that it's not "fair" for somebody to theoretically buy Pokémon, but I would like to see a PvP system implemented, even if it's years from now, that will allow a skill gap between two players of the same level that possess similar mons. I.e. If two players with equal Pokémon play against each other, if one player is aware of the typing differences, information about moves, and other future possible abilities, the more 'adept' player should be able to win by a large margin, which I figure many individuals that "buy" Pokémon will not be as a dept as those that play the game regularly and do not purchase Pokémon.
To those of you that say "PvP will never be in Pokémon Go", a recent interview with the CEO of the Pokémon says otherwise:
Initially I was going to reply suggesting that trading could be implemented in a way that it reflect the Global Trade System in the main series, but then I wouldn't be able to trade with my friends
Stardust can be slow to come by.
If only we had trading so we could use a lot of accounts to farm stardust so that we can get fully powered up mons from another account.
Getting stardust for 6 fully max powered Golems and TTar and DNites, etc etc is difficult. We have to decide how many we max out.
If we could use multiple accounts to earn the candy and dust to power up mons it would make it much easier to have complete teams of totally max'd out mons.
This is 'tongue in cheek'...this isn't a plan - it is simply to point out it is about far more than just getting a good pokemon.
Trading is about every resource in the game.
TMs to get it the right move
Stardust to power it up
Candy to evolve and power up
...all of these resources can be earned on multiple accounts for the benefit of a single account.
Trading a crap pidgey for a max'd Dragonite is about stardust & candy & TMs as well and not just the pokemon itself.
Done wrong, it can break things in ways that have not even been considered in any thread I have ever seen on the subject.
Break things how? I'm not being contrary; it's a sincere question.
The arguments against trading all follow the same chorus: it'll break the game. people will simply buy the mon they want instead of working for them. cheaters will monetize it. people will create multiple accounts and then transfer all the good ones to their main account to get them all faster.
But what I want to know is how does any of this possibly affect legitimate players who are enjoying the game the way it was intended? We here know this game is all about grinding and luck. That's why we play. It's for the adventure that we're in for the long term. It's a reason to get out of the house. Lately, it's a gateway to meeting other likeminded, often fellow introverted and, at times, socially awkward but awesome people who all share a common interest. If people want to shortcut it and collect 20 100% Dragonites within a week without leaving their house, so what? I don't get how they could possibly enjoy them as much as I enjoy the one that I caught myself, evolved, and walked as my buddy for 800km. And I fail to see how someone else having 20 said perfect Dragonites takes away the enjoyment I get out of my one.
Even if Niantic introduced trading tomorrow and web sites selling 100% mon popped up all over the place the very next day, it would not affect my gameplay or enjoyment thereof one bit. I have no intention of buying (or selling). And I suspect all legit players wouldn't, either. All it would do is give the existing cheaters yet another way to cheat. The mon they're catching now through spoofing aren't affecting me. Why would mon they start buying be any different?
I see the point you're making-black markets may take away profit from Niantic; but they have stated previously and recently through an interview with the CEO of the Pokémon company:
From this perspective, it appears that Niantic will go through, even though there is a chance to affect them financial.
However, Howler's point still remains valid. I argue that the majority of the player base, those that don't spoof or won't engage in black market antics (I dot have a percent or a source, this is just an assumption) favorably outweighs those that engage or will engage in the aforementioned antics, and therefore should have the option to trade
It would guarantee you have no chance of being the top dps in a raid, and therefore you will have less chances (balls) to catch the mon you may have even paid to raid.
It also has the potential bypasses the need to hunt for your own evo items - just trade the mon.
These are small things, but they add up.
You are right in that there is currently not a lot of 'competition' in anything and so it won't have a massive influence...as the game stands now.
...but I don't expect the game to stand still for long, and it isn't a stretch to expect them to add more competitive aspects, that would be affected more by the ability to trade.
You bring up some very good points. There are a few premises in your argument(s) that I would like to touch upon.
In the original post:
"stardust can be slow to come by" - I believe that having multiple accounts will only be beneficial for those that have multiple devices, otherwise switching in and out can be time consuming and tiresome. This aspect of Go already exists, those that use multiple accounts will continue to, from a stardust aspect I don't believe that having multiple accounts will be 'problematic,' because, in your opinion, what percentage of the player base do you think will engage in this style of play?
However you are very true about the use of multi-accounts to have a better access to TMs and candy, I will touch upon this in one of the coming points as to why I don't think this will be a big issue.
As to raids...this only affects team contribution balls. And in such scenario, if people that engage in these antics exist on multiple teams within the same raid, the playing field may be evened. However, my proposed scenario will probably happen very rarely. Over the overall population of PoGo players, how many do you believe will be affected by individuals that engage? In other words, how many individuals do you think (proportion of the player population) will multi-account or use the black market to achieve a higher-dps in raids?
- This must take into account that the player that is using ideal pokemon through cheating means is of a player level (38) or close-to. A lv30 that just starts out may have 6 perfect mons...for there level. We don't know if Niantic will implement something similar to the main series where if player A trade a lv 39 to player B (who is lv30) that player B will/will not be able to use lv30 (essentially, the gym badge effect in the main series)
The other point i'd like to bring up involves the outcome of raids (probability of catching pokemon due to balls received being negatively impacted by 'cheaters') and the final point you bring, which I think is a very, very, very good point. Pokemon Go at the moment, as you were getting to, has a meta that seems to be focused primarily on raiding and maximizing dps. The meta will most likely change with the addition of competitive features (PvP).
I argue that, having a pokemon with perfect iv's, and one with mediocre iv's (let's say 80%? if that's cool? for the sake of the argument), and with no iv's, all have little difference in their overall stats, with exceptions of say Blissey's low attack, Alakazam's low HP, and soon to be Sharpedo's miserable defense. In these cases, iv's matter alot.
However, think about it like this: if you were to take a lv39 dragonite with perfect iv's, and one with say 80% ivs, and a third with no iv's, I don't have the math at hand, but the lv39 with 0% iv's has, based on my quick yet probably somewhat accurate calculations, has 90-93% of the overall stats that a perfect dragonite would have, and an 80% iv dragonite would have roughly 98% of the stats that a perfect dragonite would have.
I argue that the quality of a pokemon's ivs will play very little role in the outcome of player matches. In fact, I have faith that this game will allow player's with a greater understanding of the game to outplay those that may purchase accounts with perfect pokemon, due to having a greater depth of move knowledge as well as type advantages. In other words, I have faith that Niantic will reward players that know Pokemon tbetter than those that don't and may pose a threat to the future of the Pokemon Go competitive scene.
In terms of multi accounters benefiting from receiving a greater amount of TMs, I am in total agreement.
Getting back to raids, these 'cheaters' may pose a threat to the inferior teams at raids, but how often will this happen? As well, my prior argument that iv's don't make a significant difference can be used to here to support my belief that cheaters won't have a huge benefit in this aspect.
I apologize for nitpicking, but I believe that in the long-run, Niantic will shape there game to reward those that know the game well, not those that just possess the best iv pokemon.
I also forgot to include dodging in my argument; it can be argued that players that know how to dodge are the ones that most likely pour more time into this game, and therefore those that buy accounts (but not pokemon, you would be correct in this aspect) would be less successful at dodging.
I acknowledge that my response I held entirely on theoretical premises, and my arguments may prove to be invalid once more competitve aspects are released.
Getting back to HowlerFan's point, I too would like to see trading to be able to trade with my friends, even though it may allow many others to unrightfully obtain pokemon.
I just realized an argument that you could use to support your side is that people do invest money into this game. What's from stopping them to invest that, say, $20, from pokecoins to black market pokemon (lol)
Any feedback is appreciated man
Edit: didn't mean for the box or the bold text but its kind of cool so i'm going to leave this post as is
I thought about how they'd make trading available, locally of course, and keep the fairness and spirit of the game in tact foreveeeer lol.
Finally thought what if the Pokémon to be traded had to be buddy walked 10km first. Then when ready each Pokémon profile would have a trade icon and "TRADE" search function of all 10km+ available?