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What to do with second 100iv dratini?

I already have a 100iv maxed out dragonite with dragon tail and outrage, and just hatched another 100iv dratini today.

I definitely dont want another same dragonite as it is not my style, but I feel like draco meteor is not really great of a move. May be I should just keep it as a trophy for now, or in case new moves or something like that in the future.

What do you think?

Asked by [email protected]5 years 4 months ago

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Draco meteor is far from a bad move.

It's DPS is comparable to outrage because of how long the cooldown is for outrage (there are also a few cases where DM actually beats the DPS of outrage, though rare) so having a draco meteor one is hardly bad. I have a 96% DM one from the first time it came out, she's still hitting raid bosses almost as hard as my 100% DT/Or one.

If your in need of another dragon, i'd say evolve it, if you have a lot of dragons as is, i'd wait and see if it gets something else in the future. Personally I dont think thats likely, but it is a (small) possibility some of its other legacy moves might come back.

Draco Meteor is a good move. I use it all the time. My first and only dragonite was a perfect draco meteor. I'm finally evolving a second one today and will try to get outrage since everyone raves and raves about it. I hope i'll be impressed.

Speaking from experience, both moves are faily close preformance wise, so if you like draco meteor, you will like outrage.

Draco meteor gets that hex gengar stigma, just because it isnt the "best most optimal set", people tend to treat it like it's aggron. The preformance gap is so small I dont think most notice it.

If you want Outrage, wait until after the event ends to evolve it. That will give you a 1/3 chance of getting it with no TMs, instead of a 0/3 chance (automatic Draco Meteor).

True, but DM is almost as good and you have a 100% chance to get it now. Choice...

Draco Meteor is arguably as good as outrage. Cycle DPS is very similar between the two, and DM is more dodge-friendly. The only argument in favor of outrage is that it will potentially waste less energy because it is a two-bar move, but that is now less of an issue, due to the recent tankiness buff.

Don't listen to people who read some soundbite, and then repeat it ad infinitum, like they are some kind of expert ("DM is worse than outrage;" "Blissey with pound/hyper beam is a better defender than any other non-Blissey pokemon;" "confusion/solar beam Exeggutor is a great generalist;" "Mamoswine will be head-and-shoulders above any other ice pokemon," etc.). Learn to evaluate movesets yourself, and make your own decisions.

There's absolutely no way to argue that it's as good as Outrage. It consistently performs worse in simulations and DPS calculations. But it's not far, and it's better than any other non-OR dragon charge move like DP or DC.

And again, we hear from one of the self-proclaimed experts. Not only is there a way to argue that DM is as good as outrage, there is a way to argue it is better. If you value dodging, and/or you use it in a situation where it survives long enough for energy loss to be a non-issue, then DM is as good or better than outrage.

DM does 150 damage for 100 energy. Outrage does 220 damage for 100 energy, but takes 4.2 seconds longer to do so, which is about enough to launch four extra dragon tails, for another 60 damage. Meanwhile, those extra dragon tails are gaining energy at the rate of 8.18 EPS, so by the time the outrage Dragonite is finished firing off the second outrage, the DM dragonite has already charged up 1/3 of the next DM. That doesn't even take into account the fact that DM is much more favorable for dodging, due to having a slightly shorter duration AND needing to be launched only half as often to achieve approximately the same amount of cycle DPS.

To the OP, like I said, do your own research, so you don't need to take the advice of wannabe "experts" like the above.

Draco does indeed have advantages over Outrage so you shouldn't really feel bad about getting it. That said, Outrage still remains a more consistent option. Let's look through some situations:

0 Draco Meteor vs 1 Outrage = This may come into play against particularly rough bosses like Draco Meteor Palkia, which may KO you with its own Draco Meteor before you get to fire yours.

1 Draco Meteor vs 1 Outrage = DM wins by a long shot. Not an unlikely battle situation because of Outrage's long duration slowing down overall energy gain. To give an example of the dps difference, against a Palkia raid boss Salamence averages at ~24 dps while Rayquaza averages at ~19 dps (source: gobattlesim, Draco Meteor Palkia boss, best friends). The numbers are specifically when this situation occurs, not as a whole.

1 Draco Meteor (+4 Dragon Tails) vs 2 Outrage = Approximately even (210 vs 220 damage).

1 Draco Meteor vs 3 Outrage = Outrage wins. This is a situation where Draco gets its 2nd full charge but the user dies before it can be fired

2 Draco Meteor vs 3 Outrage (probably an extra Dragon Tail or two) = Approximately even; Draco Meteor may slightly edge Outrage because of the amount of extra Dragon Tails it gets to fire off

In longer battles the average dps for each converges to approximately the same, with Outrage slightly winning on average with small energy waste accounted for, and Draco Meteor coming out slightly ahead if no energy is wasted (this is really unlikely, especially considering that you may often find yourself firing an extra Dragon Tail at full bar if the boss fills it up as you use it).

As far as dodgeability goes, however, Outrage being a 2 bar move means that you always have the option to wait till 100 energy to fire it off should you need to use more Dragon Tails to dodge things. This takes away Draco Meteor's dodge advantage. You could argue that Draco is even less dodge-friendly bc you pretty much have to fire it off at 100 energy to not waste it, while there may be dodge-and-fire opportunities present at the 50-100 range for Outrage to take advantage of.

Also the rebalance doesn't change energy waste much. In some situations you might find yourself being able to live an extra hit and fire off a Draco Meteor that you couldn't have before. In other situations, you could live the hit before, use a Draco, and faint afterwards, but now you're stuck spending a few seconds clicking Dragon Tail and reducing your dps and fainting with a partially charged bar.

TL;DR: Outrage offers better consistency and flexibility. Draco Meteor has a niche in potentially outdpsing Outrage in shorter fights. Both moves offer similar dps in the long run, with Outrage coming out ahead if energy waste is factored in.

I don't see any actual math here. Being 1/3rd towards the next DM when an OR Dragonite has finished both ORs means exactly nothing if your DM Dragonite ends up dying with 50 leftover energy after it has fired the second or third DM. You have to try a little harder if you want to convince me with numbers, meaning actual calculations about overall effectiveness.

IIRC Draco Meteor ends up having better cycle damage in about a third of situations (basically when the attacker dies with less than 35 leftover energy or so). I never said OR is strictly better, I said it's consistently better. DM being better in some situations doesn't mean you can argue that it's overall preferable. It's not, because Outrage is overall preferable due to being more consistent.

Also the better dodgeability is next to irrelevant in group raids, which is what most people are going to be using their Dragonites for.

You indeed said outrage is strictly better. I quote: "There's absolutely no way to argue that (DM's) as good as Outrage."

Now you're saying that outrage is marginally better >50% of the time, which I don't think anyone will disagree with. The debate is analogous to blizzard vs. ice beam, and depends a lot on personal preference and specific situations.

Draco Meteor is a very good move, it's just not as good as Outrage, which is an excellent move.

I got a second 100% Dratini yesterday as well and I will most likely evolve it after the event is over and TM to Hurricane, because I know it'll be useful to me in challenge solos and potentially pokedraft. But if you don't feel like you need another maxed hundo, maybe you should keep it unevolved.

Great, the guy who is trying to argue that outrage is strictly superior to DM is going to TM his own second 100% Dratini to hurricane. That should tell you something about the validity of his logic.

Wow. I even stated the reasoning behind my decision to go with Hurricane and they are perfectly valid reasons. I have absolutely no need for another double dragon Dragonite.

Nothing wrong with your choice to get hurricane on your Dragonite. But don't pontificate about how DM is strictly inferior to O, in a thread started by a player who stated from the beginning that he didn't want another DT/O, and then advocate for hurricane as a preferable alternative.