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Top-tier legendaries

The general consensus appears to be that among the legendaries released so far, the top tier comprises Mewtwo, Rayquaza, Kyogre and Groudon.

Heatran was projected to be top tier but was unfortunate to get Fire Blast, not Overheat.

Among legendaries that have yet to be released, which are likely to be top tier (of course, if they get good moves)?

This is crucial for planning how to manage our Rare Candy, especially for free players. In my case, if the next top-tier legendary is a long time away, I should park some in Kyogre, Raikou or even Chansey to save bag space (as I will accumulate more).

Asked by hkn5 years ago
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I'll argue nothing is crucial. I max things (many times redundantly) so I can look at them and also try to rush people to start raids sooner. Be a pretty good+patient player (wait for the one extra mid30 player) and don't max 4 ShB M2, 3 RQ, 3 Kyogre/Groudon, etc

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With the right moves we have Darkai in Gen IV for dark moves. In Gen V there is Reshiram for the top fire attacker, Zekrom for the top Electric attacker, Kyurem for the top ice attacker, and Terrakion for the top fighting attacker. These would be ones I will be using rare candy for assuming they get the right moves.

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Kyurem's unable to learn avalanche, meaning unless other ice moves get rebalanced or it gets its signature move, mamoswine will be better than it

For fighting, Conkeldurr may already contest machamp, and its a nonlegendary, but terrakion's attack is lower than machamp's even before the 9% nerf, it has more bulk, but conceldurr also has more bulk than machamp, it will need is signature move to make an impact. Terrakion's also weak to steel, (and as MM metagross is better than fighting types agaisnt rock and ice types when at same level of effectiveness ) machamp, or fire types might be better for that.

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Kyurem probably wouldn‘t be that good even if it got Avalanche, due to lack of an Ice fast move. And I think Zekrom might not necessarily become top electric, as it‘s only Electric fast moves are Charge Beam and Volt Switch, which both aren‘t that fantastic compared to Thunder Shock. And Reshiram might just aswell get a little throwback due to Fire Fang being it‘s only Fire fast move. Just throwing that out here.

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@PokeprofJulian Charge beam and volt switch are indeed not as good, but given its post-nerf attack stat is 275 compared to raikou's 241, it won't matter as long as it has wild charge.

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Charge beam also isnt that bad of a move, its EPS is slightly better than that of TS, but only looses one more DPS, even with TB it could possibly best raikou, and will be much better against water types due to dragon resistance and is naturally much bulkier, main series wise Raikou's a 580 base stat total (BST) pokemon compared to zekrom's 680 BST. It really isnt a contest unless they give zekrom terrible charge moves like thunder or maybe thunder punch

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Terakkion has 260 attack. Much higher than Machamp and Conkeldurr. Also its not a target for the nerf either. The only knock on it is that it doesn't learn Dynamic Punch. Conkeldurr is strictly superior to Machamp in every way so it will not "contest it" it will strictly surpass it unless it gets stuck without Dynamic Punch.

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Most of the top tier legendaries with potential are either far away, or will be event moves, so candy spent now will likely get their expense made up. I'd argue theres not much need to save for candy right now. However, here's my thoughts

Groudon's one I feel is iffy, as its not likely to be great in a huge number of raids compared to other legendaries, mostly when compaired to other pokemon that hit pokemon for the same level of effectiveness as ground without weather boost. Its the best electric counter, but theres very few electric legendaries or raid bosses in general (only legendary is raikou, as zapdos is flying and A-raichu's weak to more than just ground). Its the best at what it does, but its very, very specialist ground, and theres better grass attackers compaired to it with solar beam. I'd say SA moltres would be top tier, massive DPS, and SA;s great against machamp, in particular steel sets, for raids, and pair with OH for great gym sweeping.

(this next part is without signature move considerations) The top tier ones yet to come out, the big one's Darkrai, of the data mined movesets, its showed the most promise with snarl/dark pulse orshadow ball, making it a direct upgrade from ghost specialist shadow ball mewtwo with more tankieness due to resistances (shadow ball and dark pulse have close preformance on pokebattler, generally within a few seconds of one another with the best switching depending on moveset and raid boss, but the difference is still quite small). Shaymin (sky forme) Def-deoxys and jirachi hold promise, the last two likely being great for PvP because of movesets and stats (DD on jirachi's a stupid fast steel charge move) and def deoxys is tanky as heck and has counter/rockslide. Sky shaymin's going to be a great grass glass cannon with either solar beam or grass knot (and against ground type like groudon, one of the tankiest due to massive ground resistance). Down the line, potentially Reshiram and zekrom with DT/OR, stats identical to dialga and similarly great second typings that may be useful in certain situations, could be top tier dragon attackers and the best electric or fire attacker. Kyurem sadly might not make much, its got less bulk than the other two, and it cant get avalanche, mamoswine's too good as an ice attacker. Its black/white forms will take top attacker spots likely due to shear stats even if given something like dragon breath/OR or DM and ice attackers again by shear stats.

] Gen 6, Xerneas likely will hands down be the best fairy attack by outstating, Yveltal possibly best dark type if given good dark moves moves (I believe snarl and foulplay), Zygarde 100% form could possibly good, but it atk is much lower than the others, but its massive HP might make up for that. Gen 7, all four tapu's could be great fairy attackers, koko great electric (ts/WC), and lele psychic (basically gardevoir but potentially better stats), ultra necrozma likely will outstat even mewtwo (confusion/psyshock), solgaleo and lunala both have very advantageous secondary typings in addition to their psychic type ( steel and ghost respectively, using the machamp raid as an analog, solgeleo potentially better for steel or rockslide, and lunala much better agaisnt fighting moves due to shear resistance, moves potentially Zenheadbutt and confusion respectively for fast and both with psyshock for charge, they'd outlast m2, but not out DPS) and solgeleo could be top tier steel DPS if given good moves, but likely wont be able to touch metagross

Now of course signature moves could change everything, as is the point, which is why I left them out of the above consideration.

The big signature moves are:

kyurem-ice: ice burn, freeze shock, glaciate
Reshiram-fire: blue flair, fusion flair
Zekrom-electric: bolt strike, fusion bolt
Terrakion-fighting: sacred sword
Keldeo-fighting: sacred sword, secret sword (very iffy here due to the lower atk stat than machamp, and possibly even conkeldurr, gen 5 nonlegendary which may itself beat machamp)
yveltal-flying: oblivion wing
Zygarde-dragon/ground; core enforcer/thoudand waves, thousand arrows, lands wrath
all 4 tapu-fairy: nature's madness
Lunala/Dawnwing's necrozma-ghost: Moon geist beam
Solgaleo/Dusk mane necrozma-Steel: sunsteel strike
Necrozma/Ultra necrozma/above 2 forms-psychic:Photon geyser, prismatic laser

Current released legendaries with unreleased signatures that could become top tier with their signatures:
Groudon, kyogre's sigs already in the code, we already know how good they will be
mewtwo with psystrike, maginal improvement over raid psychic mewtwo, but better for PvP
Dialga-dragon: roar of time
Palkia-dragon: spatial rend
Giratina-ghost: shadow force
shaymin-grass: seed flair
ho-oh/entei-fire: sacred fire
Lugia-flying: aeroblast

This is what I could come up with, and am fairly certain I missed somethings

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@MetagrossMaxis well, the stats for reshiram and zekrom are the same as Dialga, so I think that they will also give it draco meteor, but the fire and electric typing will make them the best of their type, if given the right moves.

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Thank you for pointing that out, had a feeling I made a mistake somewhere. Though I feel it did have something to do with dialga's steel type as well. Even with DB/DM, it can still out time to win rayquaza agaisnt DB/Dm Palkia (and even agaisnt DT, dialga's only about three seconds behind ray) due to its much better bulk despite the worse set. Outrage might have made it much better in many more cases

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Palkia and Dialga are also top tier legendaries you know, but darkrai is definitely going to be the best dark type, given is projected moves, but shadow ball will do even better, which Pokemon weak to dark are also weak to ghost. Arches though, we could just hope they release it the right way so it could be top tier. Regigigas could be a decent generalist, but it will not be as good as the top tier ones, given none of its projected moves have STAB. Giratina origin will be a beast in PvP with higher attack but lower bulk than its other form, while also being a decent dragon in gyms and raids.

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Among Gen 4 we kinda know everything's place.

-The lake trio are a snooze-fest through and through with Azelf being a less good but just as expensive Mewtwo.
-Regigigas's best role is a not-ice type attacker which doesn't mean much since Mamoswine dominates ice types.
-Giratina-O won't make waves without some new moves (Shadow Ball goddamn when?)
-Phione/Manaphy are dex filler
-Darkrai will be an absolute champ. Keep your rare candies ready for him.
-Shaymin-S's dependence on Hidden Power for a STAB fast move sucks, but if you're lucky enough to roll Grass you'll want to keep candy aside for it.
-Arceus is a TDO champ with its current moves, but I don't see it being top counter to anything. We'll see if that changes depending on how its formes are handled.

Gen 5 brings some potential heavy hitters. Reshiram and Zekrom both have potential to receive the dream team combo that is DT/OR. Reshiram with Fire Fang/Overheat will oust Moltres as the best fire legendary and Zekrom with Charge Beam/Wild Charge will do the same to Raikou. Note that Zekrom still get thrashed by Kyogre's Blizzard where Raikou doesn't (relatively speaking), so depending on the matchup it may be less "ousting" and more using them side by side.

Kyurem will be interesting. By itself it doesn't stand out in any meaningful way but Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W have monstrous base stats that could help them compensate for shallow moves.

None of this analysis is in regards to PvP potential, only gyms/raids.

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Reshiram can't learn Fire Spin and Zekrom can't learn Thunder Shock.

I checked their DPS and TDO numbers in the spreadsheet here after adjusting their stats for the 9% nerf. Even with suboptimal fast moves they still come out on top.

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Currently, Mewtwo, Rayquaza, Groudon, Kyogre, Moltres and Raikou are top tier Legendary attackers.

Legendaries that are top tier PvP picks are:

Lugia: Best Pokemon in Master League, sometimes used in the Ultra League.

Giratina: Best Pokemon in Ultra League, Second Best in the Master League, and will be one of the best picks in the Great League when it becomes available as Research Breakthrough encounter.

Groudon: Very good pick in the Master League.

Cresselia: Second Best pick in Ultra League, one of the best picks in Great League.

I am not sure about which future Pokemon might be the best in PvP, except for Deoxys Defense, which will be the Second Best pick for the Great League and Arceus, which is going to be the second best Pokemon for the Master League. As for PvE, when Groudon and Kyogre get their exclusive moves, they will be unstoppable. Darkrai will be the best Dark type ever. Zekrom and Reshiram are also going to be exceptionaly good if they get the optimal moves, and when they get their exclusive moves too, nothing will stop them either. The Megas will surely dominate, too.

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