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Thoughts on the Blissey/Chansey nerf?

I've seen mixed reactions to the stat rework and its effect on the gym meta, but I'd like to put down my thoughts and open it up for discussion in this thread. Note that these arguments are being made for someone in a moderately high activity area; different arguments may apply for different levels of activity. tl;dr: I think the nerf is bad for the gym meta.

Gyms are easily the most disappointing and tedious aspect of this game. As I and many others have discussed, much of this is due to overly simplistic and boring battle mechanics - which permeate raids as well - but also because fighting through a max-level Blissey against someone who's actively feeding it Golden Razz is oppressive. As a lone attacker, you would need max-level Machamps and good timing (e.g. no Error 29 lol) in order to berry-cap someone with a Blissey. If multiple accounts are berrying at the same time, it's impossible. For lower-level players, there's no hope even against a single dedicated berry-er, and perhaps not even for defeating the Blissey within the time allowance. I get all of that.

HOWEVER. However, berrying requires you to be watching your account constantly for attacks, for which the in-game notification system is laughably bad. Strong motivation decay means that you have to be mindful of your defenders even if there's no attack going on. Against more than one dedicated attacker, a lone defender has no chance. As this site has pointed out, in practice the best way to collect your coins is to just not get attacked at all (of course, you do have to get attacked at SOME point or you can't collect your coins...why not bring back some way to control they way you can claim coins a la the old system?), so deterring attacks in the first place is really the name of the game. Blissey + GRBs did that decisively against all but the most dedicated of attackers. What I've seen over the past few days is higher gym turnover, which is not a good thing in an area where turnover is already fairly strong. Since single defending accounts are no longer powerful enough to deter a single attacker, multi-accounters are given an even stronger relative advantage than they had previously, which is decisively a bad direction for the game to head in.

Again, all of this is in the context of a gym battling system that is utterly boring and in desperate need of a complete overhaul. One can argue that the Blissey nerf was a step in the right direction in the sense that it should never have been as strong a defender as it was - be that as it may, without compensatory measures, the balance that was previously held (and worked fairly stably in my area) has been shifted for the worse. Whenever PvP gets introduced - indeed, that must be at least part of the reason for the rebalance - if Niantic doesn't also fundamentally change the way battling works, I think this change is ultimately bad and makes obtaining the daily 50 coins even more of a grind than before.

Asked by TyFox3 weeks 1 day ago
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Answers

I just golden berried for an hour, at home drinking coffee and eating breakfast. It is the only gym I’m in, there are literally dozens of yellow and red gyms within 1 mile of there. No other blue gyms are close.

I battled and flipped two gyms before that one, but a persistent 40x2 player drove to the last one I was at and took them back. I assume he doubled back to the last one I had and did his 40x2 for that whole hour before he stopped trying. I wouldn’t have done all that if I didn’t think it was him, couple weeks ago pre-nerf he did a 35 minute berry defend against me, he had 3000 Blissey+1225 Chansey

It is getting cold outside in many places and sure most are in a car...but at least have it possible to knock down in case somebody actually standing for an hour.

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The obvious “trick” when trying to flip a berried gym is to stop attacking for 5 to 10 minutes, then attack again. I just checked and it was returned. Pretty boring doing the berrying during the battling, really boring waiting for it to be attacked.

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If you aren't yet a parent, spoiler alert...Waking up at 6am on a Sunday to go to Starbucks most consistent (gym) time that I have. My kid turns 4 in a month, maybe he can soon play soccer on a team or something and I can heckle the goalie and the refs.

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I personally don't care for gym coins because they're not worth enough real life currency for me to spend more than a minute of my time on them per day, gyms being as tedious and boring as they are. Gym defense to me is solely about staying as long as I can to keep collecting points on non-gold gyms and turnover has always been fairly high everywhere I play.

I think the nerf is significant and probably makes turnover faster here as well, since a high level Machamp can now take down a full motivation Blissey and Chansey by itself. It's just faster and easier to take gyms down and that's bound to show. Niantic is probably fine with that, as forcing F2P players to be more active for their coins seems like a good thing for the company.

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I rely on gyms for coins, so I feel the impact more than someone who pays into the game. A friend of mine who spends significant $$ on this game has expressed the same sentiment as you and doesn't bother battling or holding gyms at all, focusing instead on raiding because the money is worth less than her time. I can't say I disagree with that feeling, but with the discount boxes being so piss-poor for people who primarily want raid passes - and with the T5 boss being such a letdown - there's not much of a point in buying coins, either. I suppose that all circles back to gymming being pointless even for F2P players right now, which undercuts my original argument lol.

Having put a significant amount of time into the game, I'd just like it to be better than it is. The community at large has been extremely patient and forthcoming with suggestions, but Niantic has been commensurately slow at implementing even modest additions and reworks. Maybe they're limited in design flexibility by The Pokemon Company, but even with those restrictions this can't be the best possible game someone could develop (or even close).

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I definitely understand your sentiment. Personally I love star pieces and like raiding with friends and consider incubators also fun so there's always some kind of motivation for me to have coins, it's just inefficient to acquire them from gyms.

Like you said, there are bound to be things they could be doing better, even with having to follow TPC's restrictions. Hopefully they will, given enough time.

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Conspiracy theory: Niantic wants to make gyms frustrating for F2P players in high-turnover areas, in order to push them into spending real money on coins.

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by aSp 3 weeks 1 day ago

"Gyms are easily the most disappointing and tedious aspect of this game."

"What I've seen over the past few days is higher gym turnover, "

Could it be said that the nerf has encouraged more people to fight gyms, and so you could conclude that the nerf made gyms less boring and tedious for a significant number of players?

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