Is anyone else running into problems with people you raid with because Kyogre raids started while Groudon still has a couple days left? I had an irritating experience today because of that, so I'm wondering if the overlapping legendaries are causing group conflicts all over. I don't think I can keep this story short, so if you don't want to read the whole thing, you can just respond generally.
Whenever a legendary sticks around for a full month, it gets incredibly difficult to get enough people interested for the last two weeks or so, so I only managed to get a group together for one Groudon raid in all of January. I kept posting them in my local raid chat, or replying when someone else posted one that I could do, but every time there'd be no more than three people interested. For most of that time, it wasn't too important, because it was cloudy or rainy, but today we finally got some clear weather for a chance of catching Groudon with the weather boost. I only ever got to catch one mediocre boosted one before, and four at level 20, so I had been looking forward to the nice weather this weekend for another chance to get a good one. Then they went and released Kyogre while Groudon still has a couple days left.
Of course, when there's a new raid boss, lots of people who'd been silent for weeks suddenly reappear, so the one Kyogre that popped up yesterday evening got 18 people, then some of them fought another one this morning before I was playing. Once I was ready to join, no legendary raids appeared for hours, until 1:30 when someone finally posted one with about 45 minutes to hatch. A few people started saying they would only go if it was Kyogre, so I tried to convince them that it made more sense to do Groudon today while we finally had some clear weather, then do Kyogre raids when the rain comes back in a couple days. A couple people agreed with me, while two or three others still said they'd only fight Kyogre, which meant it looked like there wouldn't be enough people either way. I suggested we should all just agree to fight it whichever it turned out to be, but no one else would commit to anything.
That went on long enough that it seemed like the raid just wasn't going to happen at all, but then when the egg hatched and it was a Groudon, multiple people who'd been silent up to that point suddenly said they'd go, so it looked like we had a group after all. However, it took so long that time was suddenly an issue for me. The thing is, I gave myself a rule before raids even existed that I wasn't going to drive just for the sake of playing this game anymore, so I almost always bike to raids, if there's enough notice to get there in time. But this time, due to the arguing and people saying they would only go if it was Kyogre, I hadn't even left yet by the time other people were saying they were already there. I could have easily biked there before the egg even hatched, if people had made it clear that they were going, but there have been too many times that I biked several miles just for everyone to bail out after I was already there, so I don't leave until I know we'll actually have a group. The gym was about 4 miles away, and I obviously couldn't bike there by the agreed time of 2:30 anymore, so just to let them know I'd be there quickly and they wouldn't have to wait for me to bike there, I told them I'd make an exception to my rule and drive this time.
I thought the conflict was finally over, but then while I was on my way there, one person sent a long message with my name tagged, in which she was inexplicably hostile about my message. I got there at 2:32, so I waited until after the raid was over to reply. Apparently I should have just stayed silent, but I thought it might calm her down if explained the reason for my personal preference not to drive for this game. I said it made sense for her to drive, since she said she carpools with a group of other players, but for myself, I don't like to do all that driving when it's just me, and every time I've offered to take a turn driving other people, no one has ever accepted. So yeah, I just tried to clarify why I play the way I do, but then she made some sarcastic reply about violins, and that if the game was a hardship I should just stay home.
I decided not to respond again after that, but then 10 minutes later someone else suddenly jumped in with an even longer, angrier message, accusing me of calling them lazy and shaming them into doing the raids near me (despite the fact that I had to travel farther than almost anyone for this raid, and that almost every raid I do is miles away, while the gyms near me get raided two or three times a month at most). I never once said anything negative about anyone else choosing to drive, and when I post about raids near me, I simply send a screenshot of the raid the same as everyone else. The only shaming that ever happened was one time when one of them ranted at me for joking that I didn't want to bike 12 miles in the rain.
So anyway, all I did was explain my personal preferences, so I have no idea where all this aggression was coming from, and it annoyed me that I was having to defend myself for playing the game differently than they do. I made one more reply, saying, "Now you're just making stuff up. I have never called anyone lazy or shamed anyone. The entire point was that I was trying to go to a raid at one of the gyms farthest from where I live." Then the next thing I knew, he suddenly kicked me out of the group.
All of this could have been avoided if they'd simply waited until Groudon was over before releasing Kyogre, because the entire conflict started due to people arguing about which legendary they'd being willing to fight. And now I find myself questioning whether I even want to try to rejoin the raid group, or if I should just take this as a good moment to finally quit this game.
Follow-up question, which raid would you do, if you had a choice between a weather-boosted Groudon, or an unboosted Kyogre?
In my experience from the one group I was once in, people don't care to read about personal explanations or excuses unless you know them closely and raid with them regularly. Raid groups are just meant to organize people and if no one wants to show up for a raid, then you shouldn't waste your time trying to convince them since they become annoyed pretty easily. Instead of posting your reasons for playing whatever way you play (rules and whatnot), just use the groups for what they are and keep it as non-personal as possible. In reality, no one cares how you've decided to play and why; if you can't make it to a raid you stay quiet, and if you need attendees to wait for you for whatever reason you ask and stick to whatever they decide. Just keep the unnecessary noise and explanations to yourself and you should be able to avoid most drama
Yeah, like I said, I guess I shouldn't even have bothered to reply to that first angry message. Once someone's mad at you for no good reason, trying to have a conversation with them is never going to go well.
This is a group of a few dozen players who all know each other, though, so conversations are pretty common. They all know I play by bike, so I just didn't understand how she could have been offended by me saying, "Alright, I guess I'll make an exception and drive there" just so it was clear I'd be quick, but like you said, explaining is pointless.
“Once someone's mad at you for no good reason, trying to have a conversation with them is never going to go well.”
In general, that is a lesson that has taken me a long time to learn. Trying to reason with unreasonable people just seems to add fuel to the fire. It just makes things worse (i still find myself stubbornly trying sometimes. Sigh.)
As far as raids, we are lucky to have a group that is very cooperative in our town. I’ve heard that other nearby groups are “everyone for themselves”.
Most of the leaders try to set a tone of taking care of each other. We always try to make sure everyone who says they are coming is there before we start, even if it means starting late, as long as it doesn’t risk expiration. That kind of thoughtfulness tends to pay forward.
A boosted Groudon is a great thing. No one in their right mind should pass on one.
Our group certainly has folks that “play their own way” like you. The one or two who would not stfu about how their way was THE way are gone though. It sounds like you aren’t preachy or an ass about it though so to hell with the haters. The only reply should be “well you play how you like” and carry on. You won’t change anyones mind with arguing you will only piss them off. Just do your thing and carry on.
When it comes to down to a decision of whether or not to go back to town for a raid, I always give significant preference to the regular
core raiders and not the 2-3 day warriors who come out just for the start of the new bosses. I don't have a problem including them at my convenience, but would never go out of my way to help them.
In our area no we haven't had this issue. Because people act like adults. Those that are willing to do groudon say that they and do them and those that don't want to don't do them and don't have to explain or argue about why they don't want to (for me personally I have plenty of groudon and don't want to spend any money to get more). As an outsider to this conversation only hearing your side of things, while the other person should not have posted an aggressive message to you, you do seem like you were being kind of pushy about the whole thing. Chiding people for not wanting to do groudon and trying to get them to commit to a raid that they may not want to do simply because you want to. The way you seemingly phrased that you were driving this time rather than biking does sound a bit condescending. I mean why not just say hey I'll be there in XX minutes rather than "don't worry I'm going to violate my personal role and drive so that you don't need to wait for me". Especially after having to hear it from you about why they were wrong for not wanting to do groudon and only wanting to do Kyogre in the first place they did have a reason to be upset with the situation. They were wrong in how they ended up dealing with it but I see where they were coming from.
Well, my intent was simply to let them know I'd be quick, and it didn't even occur to me that anyone could read it as anything negative. I guess that's one of those cases where text is limiting, when particular phrasing lets people interpret words differently than they were meant.
The main issue at first was that I needed to know whether the raid was going to happen or not, so I could get there in time. I had agreed that I'd fight it whether it was the one I wanted or not, but for those distant raids, I can't bike there in time if we wait until it hatches to decide whether we're going to fight it or not. That's why I was annoyed that they have two legendaries going at the same time, because it splits people into groups who can't agree what we want to do.
Yeah, certainly in another context how you phrased it would be fine, but if they were already frustrated with the arguing in the first place, it's pretty easy for them to misinterpret. Having said that though, they seem like jerks anyways so I wouldn't be super concerned about it. As far as the double legendaries, yes it would be better if they did wait until one ended but it's niantic, what we going to expect? Smart decisions that they players are happy with?
"Don't be super concerned about it" sounds simple enough, but in practice it means I can't do raids anymore, at least nothing above a tier 3. Even if I do eventually manage to rejoin the raid group, at this rate it'll be after they've all done their fill of Kyogre raids without me, so I'll be right back in the position of never being able to find enough people for a group again, like it was for the last two weeks Groudon was around. All because one guy was so petty and full of himself that he thinks the way to handle a minor disagreement is to kick people out instead of having a conversation like a reasonable adult.
I already missed my chance for an EX invitation because of all this. A few hours after I got kicked out of the group, they did a raid at a gym I likely would have joined, if I had known, then the very next day, that gym sent out invitations for an EX raid.
When you are trying to explain to unreasonable and illogical person, nothing will works and gets through their brain. I experienced it with my cousin before on a separate matter and it doesn't work, what's more with several people whom you aren't even close with. Even if you are right, they will still blame you as if it is your fault. Hence, I will just tend to keep quiet and go with the flow according to majority because you never know there are always these kind of people who are immature, childish, brainless and unreasonable.. Just my 2 cents.. Cheers...