GamePress

I’m so tired of casuals.

Just now there was a Giratina raid going on, and it was only me and a guy with 2 L40 accounts, and they were best friends. I tried to tell him a Giratina trio was possible (even better there was a L28 guy nearby that we couldn’t see so it made a 4 man) but he just wouldn’t listen and left.
I just want to express that casuals dominate the game now and every raid we do just depends on how they think, not how we think. Niantic should really make all raids soloable (or at least duoable) so the casuals will be forced to know how to really play the game.

Asked by TheKyogre4 days 21 hours ago
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I agree. It is completely hopeless. If you have 6 people in a raid it is pretty much gg because 99.9% they go in with Aggron and Draco Meteor Dragonites.

I saw a togetic raid a week ago with people using shit like Registeel and Lairon along with Aggron or Unpowered up Mewtwos. There were 5 people and if not for me they would not had been got away with it.

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I was with 2 other level 40s both Instinct I was Valor. We barely beat the raid and I looked and I got +3 Team contribution. Means I did more than half the damage these 2 instinct players did lol.

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Nothing wrong with Draco Meteor Dragonite. I won't disagree about it being less than optimal compared to Outrage but as long as you can fire off a couple of them it still hits like a truck.

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DT/DM Dragonite actually are pretty close on DPS with DT/O. I have both on my Giratina's team along with DT/DM Salamence. The key here is to fire off at least 2 DM before fainting, and that is pretty easy due to Giratina's low damage.

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Disagree - the 5 people probably would have been fine. It takes 2-3 well optimized players to take down Togetic, and a casual using game recommended counters is not half as good as a serious player, maybe 2/3 as good. Registeel and Lairon can take down Togetic with 5+ people.

Heck, have you seen that video where a team of I think 8 players uses all Jigglypuffs (not Wigglytuffs, Jigglypuffs) to take down a Latios? Hilarious, but accurately reflects raid math - numbers can easily make up for non-optimal counters.

All right, sure, if everyone brought Machops to a Giratina raid, maybe they couldn't win. But any reasonable choice with enough casuals will lead to a win.

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actually today I took a tier 1, and another¨player was in the lobby but quit when run started and told me "not enough, 5 players recommended¨ 0_0

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Just my opinion: stop caring about them. The game is design for casuals, it's just us that try to take it to another level of complexity by adding challenges. Just look at the recommended raid group sizes in the lobby.

I found a good raid group in Discord for Tier 5, I have my very reliable L40 account for Tier 3 solos and an extra half broken phone in my backpack to log into my son's account (L32) when he's at school for Tier 4 duos or short-man Tier 5.

So sometimes it's nicely social, sometimes a one-man thing, but casuals can never ruin my raid experience. If they come, they're welcome to join and get stronger together by talking during the raid and the 2 minutes waiting in the lobby, but I don't count their firepower and I live a happier life that way.

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Having to rely on casuals and toxic communities are major push factors for players to use multiple accounts and cheat in other ways.

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There is very little push back for multi-accounting from Niantic. They have it as just one more line of their terms and conditions and it's hardly ever enforced unless people are making money out of it. Why would they? It's giving them more money when double accounts just pay double for their premium passes. Not to mention that many of those accounts actually belong to someone (my case).

Even Gamepress has a guide about that in this site.

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That always tickled my funny bone about the GamePress article. It starts off explicitly stating they don't endorse the use of multi-accounts then proceeds to outline how to most efficiently set one up.

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That guy clearly isn't a "casual" if he has two level 40 accounts. Maybe ignorant/stupid/stubborn, but not casual. You can't be casual and have two level 40 accounts at the same time. Not to mention, using the term "casual" just makes you seem like a dbag and is pretty elitist. Who cares how others play the game? This game is designed for ranging degrees of investment and to be a social game, so it makes sense you would need other players for certain parts of the game.

The whole point of raids is to get people together. One could say it's your fault for not getting enough people together to be able to do the raid even without that guy who didn't believe you. The fact that he chose to leave was his decision, people are allowed to do whatever they want. "Forced to know how to really play the game"? Newsflash: people can play the game however the hell they want.

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Sending gifts and timing lucky eggs, raiding in large cities with 2 full lobbies of other L40 accounts and a few spoofers, etc. Empty XP.

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By not being interested in the details. If they need to know, they ask someone what to use against a certain raid boss. I see a lot of this type of players out there, especially recently with the friendship exp.

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It's ridiculously easy to get to Level 40 now.

Assume an area active enough to do 1 Legendary Raid per day
Assume getting 1 "New Pokemon" per day (Avg over the time)
Assume catching 10 Pokemon per day and Spinning 20 Pokestop per day
-Assume getting a Gift every time you spin a Pokestop/Gym
Assume Hatching 1 5km egg per day.
Assume 20 Active Friends opening 1 gift per day
Assume every Pokemon is caught.
Assume no Catch Bonuses or Collector Bonuses
Assume no Gym Bonuses
Assume 10 new Pokestops per week (Avg. over the time)

After 91 days, with no Lucky Egg, you're looking at over 5 Million XP. You can do all of this in a single 30min interval per day, so can be done with a Lucky Egg - so 10 Million XP without much work or money invested. Put a bit of work in, put a bit of money in (say $15 to get a Special Box that has Lucky Eggs and Incubators that let you hatch 2x the amount of eggs, buy Premium Raid passes so you can do two Legendary Raids a day), have 40 Friends instead of 20 (20 that you raid with, 20 that you exchange gifts with), catch 100 Pokemon a day, Spin 100 Pokestops a day, Catch with Curveballs, etc. and you can easily make Level 40 in 91 days.

It's a big reason why I don't ask what level the Player is, I ask what level their Pokémon are; if the Pokémon aren't Level 30+, I a 0.5 when tallying up number for a Raid. So if we need 5 people to take down a Raid Boss and one of the people is counted as 0.5, we actually still need 5 people.

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Ridiculously easy to hatch a 5km everyday while playing 30min, which means "walking" at 10km/h, while still catching everything you can without falling, without any GPS error under evaluating your distance (LOL good luck)? Yeah sure...

The rest of your calculations is more or less off the same way. I get your point, it's much easier than before to get to level 40, but "ridiculously easily" to get to Level 40 in 91 days, no. It requires some investment.

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It requires SOME investment, but not nearly as much as people are making it out to be.

As for the "still catching everything without failing", that's easier to calculate than "Catch with Great Throw" or "First Ball" or "Curveball". You try to catch 5 Pokémon, end up catching 3, with 2 of them on the First Ball and 1 with a Great Throw, you've just gained 500XP. (3x100, 3x50, 2x25) Perhaps it would be better to say "Assume the gain of Gain (X) XP per day catching Pokémon." to cover everything - how many Curveballs are hit, how many Pokémon are caught on the First Ball, how many are caught with Nice, Great and Excellent throws, how many fled, how often a Collector Bonus is hit, etc.

As for the Egg hatching, yeah that's a bit off when constrained by 30min/day. But I'm also not taking into account all the eggs hatched by the Free Incubators you get every 5 levels or the 10, 2 and 7km eggs for the same reason that I'm not taking into account Great Throws, First Balls or even Curveballs; it's a fairly reasonable estimate for the purposes of a Forums post. I could say "Assume that Adventure Sync is active." or "Assume that the game is on when you're not playing (like walking to your car/the bus/where you store your bike, when you're walking/biking/driving/bussing/moving in some manner), and so is still counting your movements." or the like, so that the App is tracking 5km of movement for your character per day.

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"It requires SOME investment, but not nearly as much as people are making it out to be."
Now that I fully agree with.

I wrote "catching everything without falling", not "failing" :) 10km/h is pretty high walking speed, it's more a slow jogging speed. Which difficult to maintain while looking at your phone screen without falling ;)

The rest of what you say makes sense. We could discuss endlessly about numbers details, but there is no point. My point was, I disagree with "it's ridiculously easy to reach level 40 in 91 days", but I agree with "It requires SOME investment, but not nearly as much as people are making it out to be."

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You have many good points but newsflash: If people play however they want, less raids get completed, which is bad for players and Niantic. If you, me or anyone wants to further the community and facilitate more and better playing (which again is Niantic's interest because it leads to generated revenue), it's crucial to share knowledge about things like how many people are required to take down a legendary. I don't like OP's tone either but I understand the underlying frustration because I'm familiar with these situations and also familiar with people who have grinded to a high level but know next to nothing about the game.

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"who cares how others play the game" Because our progression depends on how others play the game! If raids were soloable I wouldn't care how others play the game. But sense I can't boost my legendarys without other peoples help it is frustrating. Wouldn't you be upset if your pokemon in your bag just decided "nope now doing this raid" Your pokemon are tools to beat raids and Niantic made other players tools to help you beat raids but we can't control that tool! Raids is a failed system and needs to change ASAP or more Pros are gonna drop out. When the Pros drop out the Casuals drop out because they don't have the Pros to carry them.

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Dont feel too bad, you might not have been able to 4 man it.

I know quite a few local level 40s that haven't powered up anything. They raid hard and get good , sometimes weather boosted legendaries, and use those in the raids.

Then they use all that dust to trade for shinies and regionals to fill their dex. A million a trade, because they cant wait for the friendhsup level to reduce the cost.

It might seem strange to us, but it's just another way of playing. I almost lost a 6 man kyogre match with two level 28s and a guy with 2X 40 because my account and my daughters were the only ones actually bringing damage.

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Blizzard Kyogre is the raid that separates the men from the boys, so to say. Hopefully we get Magnezone before it returns, as of now high-level Raikou are about the only counter that Blizzard doesn't one-shot.

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Blizzard Kyogre is one of those raids I think we should get Badges for doing with 6 trainers or less. And those badges should be added to our Avatars. With Silver being for 5 Trainers, and Gold being for 4 Trainers.

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I am looking forward for Kyogre especially Blizard variant.
Gonna be a good test to our small raid groups (nope, not the hardcore choose to short man it, just a regular group)

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I actually lost a 6 man kyogre, and barely beat it on the second try. I don't think it's "casual" to struggle on that one.

Given I had missed the winter and didn't have any Raikou (or zapdos or frenzy plant venusaur or good generalists) I wasn't bringing loads of damage either, despite knowing to use my alolan exeggutors despite their double weakness since we needed all the damage we could get.

When the only good raid counter is a legendary that hadn't seen a great raid window, it's not overly reasonable to expect everyone to have it.

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So be an educator. Not an elitist.

(Also, having crunched the numbers for my team, I'm just now after Gengar day ready for the trio. It's going to be close, especially with bad hardware for relobbies etc. And I have two teams of good counters [Rays, Gengars, SB Mewtwos Dragonites]. The quad you mentioned should have been fine, but people don't like taking risks. That's just how it goes.)

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I think this is why so man Pro Trainers are jumping ship. The game used to be hard enough that these Casuals stayed away. But now that they can hit Level 40 in 90 days of just sending gifts these Casuals are everywhere! MAKE GYMS SOLOABLE NIANTIC GET RID OF THESE CASUALS!

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No casual would bother trying to hit max level in 90 days. That's a exclusive challenge for real hardcore players. It requires knowledge of the game, which lack of it is what you're complaining about.

Once again, this whole thread is nothing but a bunch of whining and very little sense.

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Not really. It just takes an understanding of how the XP Mechanics work, not the Game Mechanics. For example, you don't need to actually battle in a raid in order to get the XP Bonus; you can either Flee to the Lobby and wait, or let your Pokémon faint and wait until the other Trainers win the raid. You don't need to take down a single gym, ever, in order to advance in the game.

Heck, you can still hit level 40 in 91 days in Pokémon Go with minimal investment and without doing a single raid or gym battle. Ever. Legendary Raids merely make it easier and faster, but if you decide to catch 50 extra Pokémon and spin 50 extra Pokestops in a day, there's the 10,000 XP that would have been won by a Legendary Raid, and it's not a particularly difficult number of Pokémon or Pokestops.

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The behaviour you are describing is both unrealistic and unattainable by what would define a "casual" gamer. Please stop being nonsensical and get a grip already.

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Idiots on this website seem to think that you can't get to Level 40 without knowing how to raid. Until those idiots realize that you don't need to do a single Raid or Gym Battle - EVER - and still make Level 40 without putting significant effort into it, I'm going to keep pointing out that they're idiots who don't understand that there are other ways to play this game and that their way to play is not the best way to play.

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by TTT 4 days 16 hours ago

I see a lot of people here saying to be an educator of your noobs, but really I think that's more the problem than the solution.

Your casuals don't try to short man. They never need to. They don't go out of their way to get to that raid, they were there anyways. So if no one is in the lobby, they just don't waste (or risk wasting, in OP's case) a pass, as they're just using one free one a day anyways.

So how is "being an educator" a problem? Because you're carrying them while educating, and they're not learning anything because they don't need to.

I know I'm probably sounding like these toxic admins that everyone hates (and I'm not condoning that - my admin community is great), but maybe if you want them to learn, you need to force them to short man or not raid at all. Recognize people at raids that are carrying, add them as friends and build up friendship, and whenever you see them at raids get them into a private lobby to short man for more rewards. That pulls them out of the public lobby, and your 10-12 man public lobbies with no carriers will start to fail raids. These players will need to fail raids before they start learning to raid smarter.

You get a return of Rayquaza that a 10 man lobby fails repeatedly, and then maybe they learn and actually use machamp against dialga when it comes out. Short term pain for long term gain. Best to start on a boss that you can 2-4 man reliably rather than risk waiting for a boss you'll need more people at...

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This is a mindset casuals simply won't jive with. If you and two close buddies trio a T5 raid while a group of 10 fails to clear it and you don't join them they won't see it as a "Maybe I should step up my game" moment. They'll see it as a "This game is full of assholes who won't let us raid them," brand the group of 3 as elitists, and are more likely to quit outright due to frustration.

I actually just saw this happen recently on a Facebook group. Someone was complaining about a group of Valors wanting to split off by teams for a Deoxys raid to maximize balls. The complaints were your typical "This group of asshole reds [because casuals never remember team names] wouldn't let anyone raid with them if they weren't red." There's a distinct benefit to splitting up large groups, several people tried explaining that to him over Facebook and it ultimately ended with "lol I was just venting y'all need to chill." No one was being particularly hostile about it either, just simple explanations.

So in a sense I agree, being an educator can cause more problems when other people don't care enough to learn. While letting people fail and have to learn on their own would help some, it's just as easy to see those same people quitting because they don't care enough to do the work on their own.

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I'd be skeptical too about jumping into a 3 man battle with people I didn't know, level 40 or otherwise. Can't be sure you're not going to prove to be a "casual" (I dislike this term) yourself and field a team of 6 aggrons. Don't fault the guy for not wanting to risk wasting passes (especially if he was out of free passes for the day) on what is essentially a dex filler.

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The problem with a statement like "make all raids soloable/duoable" is that it doesn't put bounds on what the entry point for soloability is. If the same casuals can solo a raid using Aggrons and Blisseys they'll have even less incentive to care abut type matchups or learn the finer mechanics.

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by sfawc 4 days 15 hours ago

I love playing with "casuals". Since they typically just use the "auto-selected" mons, I always get the damage bonus. LOL

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