GamePress

An honest question about Rayquaza

How useful is rayquaza anymore? I was looking at some things, and wasnt sure how good it would be going forward. I know generalists kinda took a hit compared to specific coutners after the rebalance a while ago, at least in raids, but the return of Groudon and kyogre made me think of asking this more immediately.

I know before the effectiveness rebalance, it was good because of how high it placed in DPS in a lot of match ups being a top generalist, but post the rebalance, specific counters are much better by a much more sizable margin. Flying types arent often called upon for raids, in which case moltres also is a comparable flying attacker. But the main thing for rayquaza in raids that I can see remaining constant are the dragon raids. Against how many dragons, both currently released and future does rayquaza hold supremacy over when considering all sinnoh pokemon?

As a generalist, how well does it compare against MM metagross in the gym meta? As gyms are significantly more diverse, no longer stacked so heavily to fighting weakness a machamp duo/trio lead was nearly always reliable against the first gym, Blissey and the occasional last slot tyrantiar are what seem to remain. Switching between specific best counters and having to bring those specific best coutners happens more often, leading to generalists being more useful here now. So how well does ray still compare as a generalist compared to some of the other best generalists?

To a lesser extent, how well does giratina do in PvP? I know dragon tail is the worse fast move compared to Dragon breath, but how well does rayquaza's shear stats do?

Ive only ever had one rayquaza, I got from a trade and haven't really used it since giratina, and will guess more sinnoh pokemon will be released before other dragon raids happen.

Asked by MetagrossMaxis5 years 3 months ago
Report

Answers

It still has the highest neutral DPS in the game after Deoxys-A which makes it the fastest practical generalist. MM won favor for being more bulky and having more resistances which adds to its bulk. Against Palkia it will be a go-to counter even against Draco Meteor since it's DPS is so much higher than anything else.

The effectiveness rebalance hurt its foothold as being the top counter to itself. Jynx, IB Mewtwo, Piloswine, and Weavile all enjoy higher DPS than it now while lacking a weakness to Outrage. Mamoswine, Glaceon, and Regigigas do too but they're unreleased right now.

I have a maxed Rayquaza I've used in PvP. Giratina's spammy attacks have spoiled me since Rayquaza takes noticeably longer to use Outrage but if unresisted it obliterates damn near anything.

All in all I think it's lost some footing since many dragons are doubly weak to ice, but it's still a beast. Am looking forward to its return, whenever that may be.

Up
0
Down

Thank you for the analysis. Not many dragon legendaries are doble weak to ice, which does help it, only itself and Zygarde are, so it hasn't completely lost out there unless we get tier 3-4 Flygon-salamence/Dragonite garchomp raids, which seem very unlikely, the double ice weakness is actually a trait held among the nonlegendary dragons much more. And good to know its got some usage for PvP

Glad to know that while rayquaza lost some ground, it wasnt hurt too much. that traded one I got I maxed out within a few hours of getting, 93%, 13 atk, and am glad to know those rarecandy weren't for naught.

Up
0
Down

Agree with BiggestLeaf, in a sense, Rayquaza is the Gengar of the Dragons. It will always be useful in raids against other Dragons that aren't Dialga.

My buddy who plays way too much thinks there will be a Rayquaza raid day pretty soon, which is the reason that Mamoswine hasn't been released yet - it would make Rayquaza a sitting duck. It's also possible that Ray would get a special move from the Raid day (Sky Attack, maybe, making it a great flying attacker - it's a pretty strong flying attacker even using the awful Aerial Ace move). Or who knows. The PvP crowd would wet themselves for a Dragon Breath/Dragon Claw Rayquaza.

Anyway, that is all idle speculation at this point. It would make sense, though, a Rayquaza raid day, and then just after that, a "Winter Festival" with more gen4 ice, like Mamoswine and Glaceon.

Up
0
Down

Rayquaza is still the best lazy counter to most gyms. Going through your boxes, making custom parties and switching every other Pokemon isn't worth the minor performance upgrade.

Up
0
Down

Rayquaza will be the preferable attacker against most Dragon raids that don't have a double weakness. This means Palkia, Zekrom, Reshiram, Kyurem (EDIT: Not Zygarde, it's double weak to ice) out of future legendaries, as well as some of the Ultra Beasts in gen 7 which may or may not become raid bosses.

Rayquaza is completely worthless in PvP. Its stat product isn't actually that great, it has a stupid good attack stat, which makes it great for PvE, but it's pretty glassy for a legendary. Dragonite for example has a better stat product and Giratina significantly better. But the moveset is the real killer, DB/DC is simply so much better than DT/OR.
And due to its attack oriented stats, Ray is even less qualified for Ultra league than it is for Master.

The worth of raid generalists has definitely gone down the drain, but Rayquaza looks to be useful against so many high-profile future raid bosses that I think it's a solid long-term investment. Whether it's better or worse than Metagross as a gym generalist is pretty irrelevant, gyms are so easy that it doesn't make a real difference. You can use anything with reasonably high neutral DPS as a generalist and it'll do ok, and Rayquaza has the best possible neutral DPS.

Up
0
Down

Gonna point out that Zygarde shared the same double ice weakness Rayquaza has, making ice types the better pick. The rest you specify though, better have your best Rays for.

Surprisingly, it's not the go-to fighter for Guzzlord. Checking the DPS/TDO charts it's actually 4th behind CB/DG Gardevoir, HP Bug/DG Togekiss, and - wait for it - legacy PC/DG Alakazam. It's a long con, but now I really want one of those 'Zams for maximum style points. C/PR Ursaring and S/PR Granbull get honorable mentions for being 5th and 8th best picks respectively, considering their names usually never come up.

Up
0
Down

Not too familiar with the ultra beasts but wow. I'd really like to see a raid where fairy-type DPS is the go-to answer. I agree that using legacy Zams would be very stylish.
Thanks for noticing the Zygarde, edited.

Up
0
Down

Dark/Dragon is doubly weak to Fairy. The effectiveness rebalance gave those moves the push they needed to be better than going full dragon against it, even with Gardevoir's CB being resisted and legacy Alakazam's PC being doubly resisted.

If we get Hydreigon raids when Gen 5 drops they'll be the same go-to's against it. Same for Gen 7's Kommo-o since it's Dragon/Fighting.

Up
0
Down

Kyurem I would question the sense of bringing a rayquaza to, dragon/ice type combo would leave ray facing a dragon move as a best case senario, and a double ice set would be R.I.P.

That's impressive, that CB/Dg gardevoir is actually good for something, at least in theory, in practive I feel Togekiss would take the win as its superior bulk plus not neutral to dark, but theres also the Tapu and Xerneas to contend with so...nothing to see here.

Up
0
Down

Even if it dies fast it'll still do more damage faster than anything else you can throw at it. Think about Ho-Oh with Solar Beam, Golem and Tyranitar still led the front lines against it despite getting one-shotted. Keep those Max Revives handy, trainer!

The bit about fairies was based off what's released or available in the game master. There's likely three years and mega evolutions between now and Gen 7 so anything that tops the charts now could end up B-lister at best then.

Up
0
Down

I dont think a rayquaza would be a first pick for Kyurem, its a dragon that gets STAB on ice. its attack stat isnt as high as Rayquaza, but is fairly close to it (comparing to the main series stats, they have very similar distributions)

Metagross would seem the better option.

Up
0
Down

All of Kyurem's charge moves will most likely not be ice. Is Kyogre a shitty Groudon counter because SoB oneshots it?

But your point about Metagross is a good one, GBS says that even against a relatively harmless moveset from Kyurem (DB/AP), Metagross gets a better TTW than Rayquaza. The DPS difference between them is small but Metagross has much greater survivability.

Up
0
Down

It’s completely is useless just like Machamp, any Mewtwo that doesn’t have Shadow Ball, Salamence, Hariyama, Gyarados
Shadow Claw Gengar, Blissey, Roserade, and the many many more Pokémon that only you seem to think suck.... Personally I’m going to take a page out of you book and max out and army of Aggron, Metagross, Tyranitar... Because obviously they are the ONLY Pokémon worth investing in

Up
-1
Down

by zap 5 years 3 months ago

I caught a 93 when they first came out, never bothered powering it up.
Already had 2 strong Dragonites. I still don't have a Salamence haha Been saving up the candies for community day. Dragons don't really interest me that much personally. You don't really need a flying type, and Rayquaza never lasts long with me in battles. They always get taken down rather easily, usually by my Blastoise blizzard.
It's probably fine, but I've never been on that bandwagon.

Up
+1
Down

I care less about how good Rayquaza is and more about how hard the duo is. My piloswine army is ready for the free rewards.

Up
0
Down

How easy the duo is? So easy that a solo is potentially possible. You could duo it with L30 Jynxes, Piloswines and Cloysters without any friend bonus or weather boost.

I really hope the rerun happens during northern hemisphere winter so I get to try the solo.

Up
+1
Down

Same. It would be swell if Rayquaza followed up the other two we currently have. I worry about not getting snow to try it though, it's January and I haven't seen any come down where I live yet.

Up
0
Down