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Dragon Breath + Outrage or Hurricane?

Whats the consensus on the pairings? I own a DB/O and its kind of awkward with the delayed reaction time of Outrage after rapidly blowing cannons of Dragon Breath. I have a DT/O already so I'd like to keep this one with DB. I don't own a DB/Hu so I was wondering for those that have or have had both pairings which one you prefer.

Asked by jamesharden6 years 2 months ago

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It's come to the point where the only optimal movesets for Dragonite do not contain Dragon Breath, and only Dragon Tail. The reason is because specialists have got much stronger (previously, you could use Dragonite against fire pokemon or water pokemon and still come out on top of their respective counters despite not dealing SE damage). Kyogre vs Fire pokemon makes dragonite look like a complete joke while in the past Dragonite (DT/OR) made Vaporeon look like a joke. Only DT/OR can minimise the gap between Dragonite and the optimal counters and keeps Dragonite's place as a generalist.

Dragon Tail+Hurricane still works as a machamp anchor but Lugia does it better and Rayquaza is imminent now.

Dragon Breath+Hurricane on the other hand does too little damage (Hurricane is not a very good 1 bar move and Dragon Breath is not an exceptional fast move either)

I would keep Dragon Breath and Outrage. It's the only option that keeps DPS competitive while keeping the legacy Dragon Breath.

awesome in-depth analysis!

I know DT/O is the hardest hitting combo but why does pokebattler consider DB/O over DT/O?

It doesn't. Pokebattler lists DT/O as the optimal moveset against all raid bosses where Dragonite is being put in as a neutral or dragon counter. For example, against rayquaza.

Averaging against 24 best defenders is a bit quirky to say the least.But I'm guessing you have dodge specials with realistic dodging. The longer cool down of DT makes dodging a bit more trickier than DB. In a scenario where perfect dodging of specials is executed, DT/O would come out on top. However, instead of looking at an average of the 24 best defenders, it would probably be better to look at simulation against blissey, snorlax, and chansey. Just ran those simulations with realistic dodging pro, and DT/OR comes out slightly ahead of DB/OR.

https://www.pokebattler.com/pokemon/names/DRAGONITE/levels/40/opponents/levels/40/strategies/DODGE_SPECIALS/DEFENSE_RANDOM_MC?sort=OVERALL&weatherCondition=NO_WEATHER&dodgeStrategy=DODGE_REACTION_TIME

If sorted on time to win, DT/O would come up on top

If it is showing Dragon Breath above Dragon Tail, I'd guess you have it set to dodge all or dodge specials.

...oh. Don't know why those responses didn't load till after I posted.

Why does anyone need a Machamp anchor at this point? A group of Alakazam and Espeon beats him with ease, higher DPS than any Dragonite, and if you also have a Mewtwo well it is no longer a challenge

What is a Mewtwo?

Your statement is definitely true for Machamps with CC, but I am not so sure about Machamps with DP and HS. Dodging can be difficult (particularly on older phones) and many trainers stick to level 30 attackers due to stardust shortage.

It is so easy to obtain wheather boosted Eeves at levels 33-35 which evolve into efficient Espeons to take down any Machamp, so I agree that the need for Dragonites with Hurricane should be limited for most players. Personally I have more fun using my Gengars for the Fighting Machamps.

I agree with the rest, but Eevees aren't that common now.

I think it's strange how many people seem to assume that everyone else has the same biome/weather/nests that they do.

Ok, I see that my statement was a little nuanced. I fully realize that biomes and weather differ, but the main point remain, namely that it is considerably easier to take down Machamps now than in the past, and hence less need for Dragonite Hurricane. Of course, if players choose to use Dragonite Hu for this, it is perfectly fine, but I myself will tm mine at lev 39 to Outrage of the reasons given above. I guess most players will have access to weather boosted Eeve, Abra or Gastly. Also, we have Lugia and those who are lucky enough to get Mewtwo (I am not among them).

not many DB/Hur owners out there?

When I TMed DB/DP, I would have kept H if it had been the result. Instead, I got OR first try. So, I kept that. U chose my DT/H much more frequently. It feels better than OR even if weaker.

The problem that you run into is two seperate choices:

DT vs DB boils down to a simple fact. 1 DT is slightly better than 2 DBs. It's better in both damage and energy terms.

However, if you are a perfect dodger and like to dodge quick moves, there are cases where you can fit in an extra DB.

This requires playing as much as heading over to a simulator. If you are hitting 2 DTs, then waiting and dodging, but count 5 DBs before you wait and dodge. Then DB > DT

Outrage vs Dragonclaw is a similar issue. 1 Outrage does more damage than 2 DC. Even considering the 1/2 Second longer cooldown and potential of another DB in there.

However, there are times where you will get off slightly more more than 2 to 1. For a few seconds you might have that 5th DC that fires while you die with 2 Outrages fired. In which case DC wins.

The problem is even with the various similuations, part of it depends on how you play, your reactions, your swipes, how much damage the bosses is taking and in return how often the boss fires a charge move back.

Most of time, Outrage will outdps DC. But that doesn't mean that there aren't fights where DC wins.