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Draft non-legendary tier list

Such a list would benefit trainers with limited access to past legendaries or rare candy, such as new trainers, experienced trainers with new accounts or returning from a break and trainers in areas with small or toxic communities. I decided to also exclude regional species and ignore legacy moves. Defending ability is taken into consideration (since defence = coins), but not as much as gym offence and raids.

Tier 1
Machamp (Counter + Dynamic Punch)
Dragonite (Dragon Tail + Outrage)
Blissey (Zen Headbutt + Dazzling Gleam)
Tyranitar (Bite + Crunch)

Tier 1.5
Flareon (Fire Spin + Overheat)
Gardevoir (Confusion + Dazzling Gleam)
Gyarados (Waterfall + Hydro Pump)
Hariyama (Counter + Dynamic Punch)

Tier 2
Salamence (Dragon Tail + Draco Meteor)
Alakazam (Confusion + Future Sight)
Espeon (Confusion + Future Sight)
Gengar (Hex + Shadow Ball)
Exeggutor (Bullet Seed + Solar Beam)

Tier 2.5
Metagross (Bullet Punch + Flash Cannon)
Golem (Rock Throw + Stone Edge)
Jolteon (Thunder Shock + Thunderbolt)
Snorlax (Zen Headbutt + Heavy Slam) [EDIT: better than L/HB]
Vaporeon (Water Gun + Hydro Pump)

Tier 3
Rhydon (Mud Slap + Earthquake)
Scizor (Fury Cutter + X-Scissor)
Houndoom (Snarl + Foul Play)
Jynx (Frost Breath + Avalanche)

Feedback is most welcome. Hope that GamePress can eventually make an official non-legendary tier list.

Asked by hkn5 years 11 months ago
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Answers

Saying "Defending ability is taken into consideration (since defense = coins), but not as much as gym offence and raids" and putting Blissey as tier 1 is kinda silly right. Plus I feel there is a reason they dont include a tier list for non legendary and instead opt to go for best attackers by type and separate gym defense into its own category.

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Of course, Blissey is a special case, listed purely due to her defending ability (even Snorlax can be used as an attacker) and as the main source of gym coins. Other species, like Gardevoir and Gyarados, are primarily attackers, but that they are also viable defenders (earning extra gym coins) was taken into consideration.

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Gyarados on defence makes me cringe

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It's only weak to one type (unless you count Rock which is only generally used by types that are weak to Water) - forcing a switch into a Pokemon like Raikou means that the non-Blissey of the team has done its job.

Plus, Dragon Tail and Waterfall are fairly good Defensive quick moves. Outrage also has some great coverage.

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Before legendaries became dominant, Gyarados was among the best defenders, and it remains so in rural areas with limited access to legendaries, since Jolteon is so fragile. Machamp, Dragonite, Tyranitar and Flareon all have to switch out; the best non-legendary neutral attacker is probably...Gardevoir or Snorlax?

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I just punch through them 'cause I'm too lazy to switch and I already have 2 battle parties made exclusively of Machamp.

Machamp does more damage per attack to them than it does to Blissey and receives less damage from it as well. It is a fragile, dumb, cringy serpent when defending. And jolteon wrecks it like Trump wrecked the Iran deal.

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Snorlax is useless as an attacker, if you're listing it, you should list it with ZH/HS.

Alakazam and Espeon have more relevant matchups (ie. Machamp, still the single most important tier 3 raid) than Flareon (mostly irrelevant tier 3 raids).

Sceptile, Blaziken and Breloom probably deserve spots on the list looking at the strength of mons in tier 2.5 and 3. And I think if defending ability is taken into account, Chansey as the 2nd best defender warrants a spot.

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To be honest, I thought Snorlax was usable as an attacker, which is why I placed him in tier 2.5 and omitted Chansey, which has no offensive capability (but deserves to be at least tier 3 as a better defender than Snorlax).

You are right that Flareon should probably be dropped to tier 2. Flareon has more possible roles (Regi raids, soloing Jynx/Pinsir/Granbull, attacking Metagross) but these are less important than the only real role for Alakazam/Espeon: soloing Machamp (and Gengar).

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Snorlax was an amazing attacker in gen 1 and still great in gen 2 until the gym update because TDO mattered a lot with attacking enemy towers. It was still a passable TDO option early on with the raids but now we're at a point where it's extremely unlikely you won't have a dedicated SE counter that has a better TDO. Shadow Ball Gengar is one of the few matchups where Snorlax is a good tank and you want L/EQ for that.

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What about Psycho Cut for Alakazam? Discharge for Jolteon?

You forgot Chansey for gym defense, and listed Snorlax with the (second) worst moveset.

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Mentioning viable (or outright superior) legacy movesets would also be prudent. FT for Flareon and double steel for Scizor also deserve a mention I think.

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Is Arcanine worth noting as a counter against Lapras (with WC) as well as a good budget generalist for resisting Fairy?

Also, I feel if we're adding things like Rhydon perhaps Milotic could be added. Though slightly worse as a water-type than Vaporeon, it is a much better gym defender with move variety AND with much better Quick Move options. Also substitutes as a budget Dragon Attacker.

I don't see FC/LB Sceptile up here, which is a great grass attacker and low motivation gym sweeper. If we include any starters, barring Community Day moves, I would see Sceptile, followed potentially by C/OH Blaziken for taking on the Regis.

Finally, if Rhydon is in T3, consider adding Aggron for having superior offensive typing (though poor defensive typing against counters) and access to better moves.

Other than that, solid.

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Swampert is a better water attacker than Milotic but I really don't think a tierlist needs more than 2 of the same type unless they're all amazing. Maybe make an honorable mentions category and jam all these ok but not best attackers in there.

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I skipped Milotic because Waterfall + Surf is great on offence but mediocre on defence, while Dragon Tail + Blizzard is great on defence but mediocre on offence. In contrast, Gyarados with Waterfall + Hydro Pump is good at both, because its secondary type walls Machamp (and Grass-types deal neutral damage). Feebas is very rare, even in water biomes where Magikarp is common trash.

Undecided on Sceptile, as Fury Cutter is superior to Bullet Seed but has a different typing from Leaf Blade, which limits its useful roles compared to other Grass-types.

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WF/S is Milotic's best moveset against its top counter, Raikou. It's also the best moveset against Machamp, which people will frequently not change away from due to Milotic not having any resistances against fighting.

There's no need to care about FC being different type, Sceptile is close to BS/SoB Exeggutor's DPS even with FC hitting neutral.

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Gengar, Shadow Claw is better and is generally on par with Sucker Punch.

Snorlax, Body Slam is also very good.

Exeggutor, Confusion is simply better.

Ok I see that no legacy moves.

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They kind of already have one tbh, there's also enough non legendaries listed on the tier list to give you an idea of where they stand. Also no reason to include defense period on this list(as legendaries can't defend and there is already an extensive tier list for this)

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Non-legendary tier list, new version

Tier 1:
Machamp
Counter, Karate Chop (legacy)
Dynamic Punch

Dragonite
Dragon Tail, Dragon Breath (legacy)
Outrage, Draco Meteor, Dragon Claw (legacy)

Blissey
Zen Headbutt
Dazzling Gleam

Tyranitar
Bite
Crunch, Stone Edge
Note: Crunch, Stone Edge have different uses.

Tier 1.5:
Flareon
Fire Spin
Overheat, Flamethrower

Gardevoir
Confusion, Charge Beam
Dazzling Gleam, Shadow Ball
Note: All 4 combinations have different uses.

Gyarados
Waterfall
Hydro Pump

Hariyama
Counter
Dynamic Punch

Chansey
Zen Headbutt
Dazzling Gleam

Tier 2
Salamence
Dragon Tail
Draco Meteor

Alakazam
Confusion, Psycho Cut
Future Sight

Espeon
Confusion
Future Sight
Note: Alakazam and Espeon have the same uses.

Gengar
Shadow Claw (legacy), Hex
Shadow Ball
Note: Shadow Claw is superior to Hex in most situations regardless of IVs.

Venusaur
Vine Whip
Frenzy Plant (CD exclusive)

Exeggutor
Bullet Seed, Confusion (legacy)
Solar Beam

Charizard
Fire Spin
Blast Burn (CD exclusive)

Jolteon
Thunder Shock
Thunderbolt, Discharge

Tier 2.5
Metagross
Bullet Punch
Flash Cannon

Golem
Rock Throw
Stone Edge, Rock Blast
Stone Edge is usually better, except against Solar Beam Ho-Oh.

Snorlax
Zen Headbutt
Body Slam (legacy), Heavy Slam

Vaporeon
Water Gun
Hydro Pump, Aqua Tail

Sceptile
Fury Cutter/Bullet Seed
Leaf Blade

Tier 3
Rhydon
Mud Slap
Earthquake

Scizor
Fury Cutter, Bullet Punch
X-Scissor, Iron Head
FC should go with XS, BP should go with IH

Houndoom
Snarl
Foul Play

Jynx
Frost Breath
Avalanche

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Agreed with Gardevoir. Right now, Charge Beam/Dazzling Gleam is more useful than Confusion/Dazzling Gleam, since Lati@s resists Psychic. In general, though, C/DG is the more useful. Good thing that Fast TMs are plentiful.

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