GamePress

Disappointed with "i hate pvp" and "i love pvp" articles?

Those two were definitively opinion pieces instead of the deep analysis we have come to expect from the site. They don't even point any positives or flaws with pvp that are not well known by any player. Tapping to charge attacks is ridiculous and playing with your friends/community is awesome (we had over 50 people show at a local tourney where i live)
Anyways i think those authors could keep that discussions to themselves next time (or create a poll among users to find out what we like/hate the most about pvp at the moment), since some could consider the articles bland or even toxic.
Did anybody else feel that way about them or i was the only one?

Asked by FerLG5 years 1 month ago
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Answers

by Raven8 5 years 1 month ago

I feel that there is no issue with the staff here sharing their thoughts in this format, especially in contrasting articles like this. They give us a bit of insight into the minds of other players who have gotten very involved in the mechanics of the system.

What does bother me is the fact that we're already so removed from a huge update to the system and we still have no analysis. Yes, we can all go ahead and review the changes ourselves, but the entire reason that many of us come here is for the sake of the accurate and concise articles that are normally very timely. Those articles should have dropped to the back burner as soon as the moveset shake hit.

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You really really want to know why we haven’t had a huge article about PVP?!? Because it’s a HUGE flop!!!! Only a small minority of players even battle and an even smaller group actually give a flying leap about which Pokémon are good for Battling... Sure you might have a tiny group in your local community really into it and that’s great... but the 99.9% of your local community look at battling for what it is a boring daily grind for dust and Stones ... hence no need to spend hours upon hours researching and then even more hours writing an article about something frankly nobody really cares about

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There's definitively some potential. Ancient Power boosting stats shows they will add more complexity to it but for now it feels more like a tapfest instead of actual careful and logical play (and the fact that one player gets CM priority over the other is ridiculous)

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Both articles were miles ahead of the usual which Pokémon should I power up my 15/14/13 or my 15/13/14 ? Or why is it so hard to catch a shiny ? or should I evolve this Pokémon? Bullshit that is constantly being posted

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Toxic how? It's admittedly strange to see opinion pieces on a website that normally sticks to factual analysis but sharing some insight on a new feature shouldn't be shunned just because someone might disagree with it. Both article bring up valid criticisms and praises to the PvP system and showing both takes on it was interesting.

And I mean, it's not like they hid the fact that they were opinions so you could skip reading them if you wanted...

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I agree and disagree. It is good to hear the thoughts of the staff on these mechanics, especially with something like PvP, as theres both good and bad things about it, its something that has problems and good things in it, but not inherently good or bad, the two articles more or less are the opinions of two people with differing views, not definitively "PVP is good or bad" we are left to make out own opinions.

there are flaws with PvP, one of the big ones is it can be seen as somewhat of a grind for dust/candy/stones, but it doesnt have to be a grind. The way niantic released it, with definitive best pokemon for reasons of movesets/stats, it does become a grind and tedious if you got for the optimized and best teams, but its not a requirement, and that also leaves a lot of room for communities to establish their own rules/conditions to spice things up.

Theres also no current reward for winning (from what ive seen), ive lost three matches one day, got 2 stones from one fight, a candy and another stone from the other two, so not having the most optimized teams doesnt have a consequence, unlike raids where you can miss out on extra throws/bundles.

So people are able to make what they want of it, it can be seen as just another daily grind button mash fest or a way to have a friendly competition with others and use pokemon you normally done, its really all what each person makes of it.

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Seriously, they just want to let you know their opinions, and not forcing you to listen to them. If you combine the two articles into one you will notice it has barely any difference from the “Should you use Rare Candy on Blissey?” debate posted several months ago.

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I just felt they were unprofessional and not very well written, which stands out among the quality of the site. The opinions expressed in them were less of a problem or not at all really

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I’m a PvP hater, for dailys I do masters, main account real maxed mons...2nd account level 1 luckies. Still I’m glad I got 170 Giratina-A candy thru catches. Glad I got a great powered up a Latios AND Latias. I’m interested in Niantic trying to sell PvP to me, not hearing from a “rare” area how much fun it is to save 100 rare candy plus an extra 100k dust to give a true competitive effort toward some very fleeting neighborhood clout.

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You vocalize your disdain for GP authors' opinions, and yet you expect us to care about your opinion on GP author's opinions?
K

On a serious note... I liked them. They really do cover a lot of what is right and wrong with PvP. The exciting parts of PvP for me (the maleable metas, uses for pokemon that would otherwise be irrelevant, etc) are REALLY cool. But the downsides (such as a lack of incentive to actually battle AND a lack of any sort of matchmaking system to make battling easy/convenient) are crippling, and largely prevent me from participating in PvP or investing much at all into it.

I am heavily disappointed that GP has released so little in the way of fact/statistics/analytics of PvP beyond these opinion pieces and only a cursory examination of the master league meta, but I can't exactly blame them either. Aside from trying to rank fast/charged moves, there really isn't much of a good way to objectively solve for the best pokemon in PvP, and any such list could easily be flipped on its head for how rapidly Niantic is releasing changes targetted specifically at PvP. The PvP meta revolves more around moves than mons themselves currently.

I'm disappointed that Niantic has managed to flop on what could be such an exciting expansion to PoGo, marginally disappointed that GP doesn't have much in the way of analysis of PvP (to help me experience it vicariously through the articles), and annoyed that members of the community would bash the content that GP is putting out when it's clearly labelled, well written, and pretty spot on.

I can't change any of these things though so... guess I'll just let bygones be bygones.

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> Aside from trying to rank fast/charged moves, there really isn't much of a good way to objectively solve for the best pokemon in PvP

I did an article (https://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/derivation-pokemon-go-pvp-meta-january-15-update) on this topic. Yes it only touched Master Tier but the methodology (use the Pivot Method on Battle Matrix to solve for the optimal Pokemon) can be applied to any Tier/cup.

In fact, I have also solved for Ultra and Great tiers. The derived meta is very close to actual meta. Before I finish the final checking, I'm keeping those results in a Top Secret spreadsheet for obvious reason (staff like us are still PoGo players that want to be the very best!).

We were also making Tier lists but the Jan 31 update changed a lot of things and we have to do everything again.

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I felt they were unprofessional and porly written compared to other articles that's why they stand out. A better move could have been an article where each member of the staff pointed out one "good" and one "bad" aspect of PvP for them. That could be fun.
PvP definitively has more untapped potential but the lack of incentive to play or optimize besides local tournaments is definitively a problem atm
The meta articles were cool to read since i love formulas :)

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by hkn 5 years 1 month ago

The opinion articles are a refreshing alternative to, but do not detract from, the deep analysis articles that GamePress is known for.

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by aSp 5 years 1 month ago

It is not the first 'discussion' article at all...and I hope it isn't the last.
No one is forcing you to read or accept any of it. You have a choice. I hope this thread isn't enough to discourage them from doing similar in the future...or that removes my choice to see it.

As for the deep analysis they provide...I am happy to wait for the quality produced by the dedication of time the authors put in.
They have been burned before, when content was changed not long after an analysis was done...and they did it all again.
I wouldn't be surprised if they are waiting to see if the content is stable and unchanging prior to dedicating the time and effort. (Once bitten...and all that)

Think of it this way...your disappointment stems from your expectation of excellent content, based on previous excellent content. Instead of using your high expectations to berate them...recognise that this expectation is built on LOADS of excellent content.
Maybe, just maybe we should be thankful not critical and demanding.

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I'm the author of the "I hate PvP" article (though hate doesn't accurate reflect my opinion on the feature).

As a regular contributor to the site, obviously I can't provide any other meaningful content on PvP because I don't play it. If I wanted to write a good article based on experiential findings, I'd have to invest very heavily in PvP, which doesn't align with my personal goals in the game.

Honestly when PvP first dropped, I was super hyped about it and thought we could shape GamePress into a discussion hub for the competitive aspects of this game. But interest in PvP is disappointing, in part due to the reasons stated in my opinion piece, and I think many of us feel that these articles aren't going to reach a wide audience. So it's hard to justify putting in the effort for them.

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Thanks.

...just wanted to say it, while I have a chance.

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I agree with a lot you say in your article, my main critic to it is words like "hate" or "love" in titles are too hyperbolic (even for opinion pieces) and that the second article about loving PvP seemed like a direct response to yours, therefore more like a rant than an article.
PvP has potential but atm lacks any real in game incentive to play besides sinnoh stones. Fighting rotating Gym leaders from the games for some rewards could be nice although it wouldn't solve core issues with it (like ridiculous tapping to charge moves).
Anyway thanks for your contributions!! :)

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